Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Sept. 27th, 2018

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

As you've heard from my colleague across the way, IDPs are a big concern. Several communities have IDPs. In my Sikh community, Afghan Sikhs within Afghanistan have that challenge. There are people all over the world. They're not the only ones.

Have you heard of dialogue at the United Nations to perhaps change the definition of what a refugee is, and to constitute IDPs as refugees as well? As we saw in the Yazidi case as well, it requires special measures to help an IDP versus the same person who has crossed the boundary and gone to a similar camp on the other side of the border. They are considered refugees, but when they're in the same protective zone under the UNHCR within the country, they unfortunately cannot be resettled or assisted other than just giving financial means.

Is there a conversation going on at the UN or the UNHCR to change this age-old definition, as the world has changed?

[Jean-Nicolas Beuze]

No, there's no discussion on that because the world has changed, but the IDPs were also present in 1951 when those legal concepts were drafted.

The refugee definition is really based on the fact that an individual is not able to avail himself or herself of the protection of his or her state. That's the definition, and therefore this person is at risk because there is no state to protect that person. The IDPs are still within the jurisdiction of their country and it's still the responsibility—that's a human rights framework—of this country to protect them.

Now the persecution, we acknowledge, can come both from state agents or non-state actors. When it's a non-state actor, it's still the responsibility of that state. We are speaking here about Central America, for example, providing the safety, the security and judicial remedies to people at risk of violation of their rights by those armed groups and so on.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Usually they are—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm afraid I need to end there. I'm sorry.

Ms. Rempel and Mr. Maguire. I'm not sure who's first.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I'll be very brief.

I just want to go back to some of my comments.

I believe that the comment you made was that people had a choice to leave the country.

I'm just wondering what somebody who is, let's say Yazidi, who underwent the massacre at Sinjar, would have had to do to make it on the initial list of resettlement after the massacre.

[Jean-Nicolas Beuze]

In the case of the Yazidis in the north of Iraq, just to be very specific, the overwhelming majority of them didn't want to leave Iraq because there was a relative, whether a child or a male adult—brother, husband, father—who was still in captivity. It was extremely difficult for them to make the choice of moving across an international border because they were afraid of never being able to be reunited.

You well know, Ms. Rempel, that was one of the issues when we identified a number of Yazidis to come to Canada, and some actually rejected the offer because they wanted to remain close by so that they would be reunited with their loved ones.

When they cross into another country, we do register them, and we do try to elicit information about their vulnerabilities. As you can well understand, it's extremely difficult for women the first time—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

How did you know that people didn't want to relocate if they weren't put on that list?

[Jean-Nicolas Beuze]

We have individual conversations and focus groups with all of them on a daily basis.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

After the massacre, how did you gather whether or not they wanted to be on the resettlement list?

[Jean-Nicolas Beuze]

In all our operations, through our partners, whether government or non-government organizations, and also with our own UNHCR staff, we hold those focus group consultations. We call them participatory assessments.

Of course, it's extremely difficult for those women to come with a story of having been sexually abused.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you. I'll move on.

There are a number of Yazidis who are in Canada now. I have several cases on my desk. Many dozens said that they were told by your agents that they would be able to bring their children to Canada. I know that IRCC is responsible for reunification, but many of them have had their applications rejected. In the community, they are saying that they were lied to. They were told just to get there and that their family could follow.

What sort of information was given to this community? How did you determine, in this special situation, how they were being rejected?

[Jean-Nicolas Beuze]

That was an issue, as I just mentioned.

A number of Yazidi women and girls rejected the offer to be resettled.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

No. You rejected their family reunion applications recently.

[Jean-Nicolas Beuze]

It's not us. We are not responsible for the secondary movement of family members.

[Michael Casasola]

Sorry. If I may, I'll just say that all the counselling that was given, in terms of the questions and answers and counselling guidance, we developed for our people with IRCC before this operation began.

[Jean-Nicolas Beuze]

It was made clear to the person that we could not guarantee when a family member would resurface or whether this person would be able to come. As you know, there is screening on security concerns as well.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Go ahead, Larry.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you.

You mentioned the dollars and the private sponsorships.

Of all the countries in the world, are there really private refugee sponsorship models or methods that work better with the UNHCR?

[Jean-Nicolas Beuze]

The private sponsorship model of Canada is quite unique.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Are there better ones anywhere that we can work with?

[Jean-Nicolas Beuze]

No.

Our priority is really the government-assisted refugees or what we call here the GARs. They are based on a selection by UNHCR within this 1.4 million.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Would there be any red tape or systemic barriers that we could look at?

[Jean-Nicolas Beuze]

It's a very robust system in Canada. There is a close co-operation between the UNHCR, IOM, IRCC, and the visa officer, to select the most vulnerable and bring them here, where they get a good program to support their socio-economic integration into Canada.

[Michael Casasola]

Jean-Nicolas highlighted the fact that our focus is primarily on the people of concern. We have been working with IRCC, for example, to see ways that we can engage civil society to help out those refugees who come through and whom we identify. There are indications that the involvement of civil society tends to lead to better integration outcomes. Whatever way we can leverage volunteers in communities to help refugees, including the refugees we've identified, we would welcome, of course.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

You're at the end of your time, but I'm going to give you an extra minute, just because you're so nice to me.