Evidence of meeting #128 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was applicants.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
Very good.
With the committee's permission, I'm going to suggest that we do a five-minute round so that we can get through one round before 5:30 p.m. The other option is to stay 10 minutes late.
Which would you prefer? I see it's a five-minute round. Okay, let's a do a five-minute round, then.
Mr. Tabbara, you have five minutes.
Liberal
Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Thank you very much to the witnesses for being here. Again, we apologize for the disruption from the votes. We came back as fast as we could.
Kate Hooper, you mentioned that we need to look at and examine softer skills in terms of migrants and under-represented groups. I know you were short on time for your testimony, so I just wanted you to elaborate on those two things.
Associate Policy Analyst, Migration Policy Institute
In terms of softer skills, we understand that beyond the educational credentials that we usually think about when we're assessing immigrants, there are a number of different skill sets that are becoming more and more important for employers.
These are things like creative skills, cognitive skills, abstract thinking, problem-solving, evaluating data and that kind of thing, as well as the social or interpersonal skills. Those are the skills that are likely to be hardest to automate, but they will also become more valuable as we continue.
Currently there aren't that many ways in which Canada can assess that in its immigration system. The U.S. Department of Labour has something called the O*NET database. This maps out the different types of skills across occupations. It tracks those different skill sets across different occupations, and then you can even search for those particular skills across different occupations.
I could do a search, for example, for abstract thinking skills across different occupations. That's an interesting way in which we can start thinking about those different skill sets and how they are applicable across different occupations as we see this churn in different sectors. It might be one area in which Canada could perhaps look to the example of the U.S. in that regard, and see how applicable it is to their selection policies.
In terms of under-represented groups, the reality is that immigration policy will be one part of responding to emerging skills needs, but we'll also need to look at groups that don't work in the labour market. This could be stay-at-home mothers. It could be older groups. It could be minority groups, who tend to be traditionally under-represented. We need to look at immigration policies, but we need to look also at ways to help people who may have been outside the workforce for a number of years to re-enter the workforce.
With immigrants, that may be providing them with tailored language support or help with credential recognition, or it may just be looking at bridging programs that can help, say, mothers who've been staying at home for a number of years re-enter the workforce, update their CVs and find new occupations they can bring their expertise to.
Liberal
Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
There's a shortage here of skilled labour, especially in the skilled trades, so I've been advocating for looking at the points system by which eligible migrants come in. They're always looked at in terms of whether they have an undergraduate degree, a master's degree, etc., and they get certain points based on that. I've always stressed the need for those soft skills, as you mentioned.
My next question will be to Mr. Tabasinejad. The committee heard a lot of testimony about the continuous refugee flows due to the inability to broker peace around the world.
Can you provide suggestions as to what the international community should be doing better to broker peace?
Vice-President, Iranian Canadian Congress
I'm sorry; I would love to speak on this issue, but I was informed that this would be about voluntary migration, and this is specifically what we've prepared for. We've prepared specifically on the issue of the delays in PR application cases.
This seems almost like a foreign policy question, and it is not what I was expecting.
Liberal
Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
That's understandable.
Besides the five points you mentioned that the government should look at within Iran, is there anything else you'd want to add to the reasons for the delays? As you mentioned—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to give you time. I'm being quite totalitarian at this moment.
Mr. Waugh is next.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
Thank you, Chair.
I want to thank our committee members. We only have five minutes, so we'll try to be quick.
I just want to say, Ms. Hooper, you've hit the nail right on the head with the labour market in this country. It is changing so quickly right now that it is hard to adapt. You mentioned Uber and B and Bs and everything like that. These jobs could certainly be offered to the people coming into this country, because many Canadians don't want to work second or third jobs.
Pensions are going to change in this country. We know the labour market is going to get softer with permanent jobs that have nice pensions and all the benefits, and yet when we bring these people in, they are not going to have the same quality of life—I believe, and you may share that—that we have today in this country.
Would you agree or not?
Associate Policy Analyst, Migration Policy Institute
In terms of the benefits and the protections, that's my primary concern when it comes to the new types of jobs that are emerging.
We're seeing a lot of growth in temporary work and in contract or freelance work. The reality is that the way in which many of our employee systems work means that these benefits are provided through your employer, but if someone is working for multiple employers, they may not be covered for things like disability insurance or health insurance.
I think it's really a matter of looking at how our social security system is set up and making sure that people aren't falling through the cracks. That's true for immigrant workers, but it's also true for younger people, who tend to be disproportionately represented in these more informal types of work. Looking forward, I think that one of the questions is thinking about our welfare system, thinking about the labour protections that are in place, thinking about our benefits, and ensuring that they move in tandem with the developments in the labour market so that we don't see a bifurcation into permanent jobs that have all of these protections and stability, while a growing number of people are then left behind.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
One of the challenges we've had in this country is that when we do bring in immigrants and newcomers to settle in our communities to deal with some of the labour problems—and you mentioned schools—all of a sudden, English as an additional language is a big issue in many communities in this country. School divisions have to find resources not only for the current school population but now also for these newcomers coming in. They're being stressed out because classrooms are larger and they're having difficulty dealing with these immigrants who cannot speak English or French very well. That is causing a big strain on provincial authorities along with territorial authorities in this country.
Can you comment on that a little bit and how we can deal with that?
Associate Policy Analyst, Migration Policy Institute
I think that it goes to show the importance of investing in English as a second language training, both within schools and also for adults.
I think that one example that we can draw on from the U.S. is the way in which cities and states are able to share some of their expertise, especially when you're dealing with immigrant groups that may have a smaller number of people in Canada. If you're welcoming new groups of people who may have a different background or speak different languages, encouraging that resource sharing, both from the federal government and also among provinces and territories and among cities, would be really helpful for equipping teachers with the information they need to help children.
Conservative
Kevin Waugh Conservative Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK
I'm going to go to Mahdi because I think I just have a minute left.
We've had delays in our province of Saskatchewan for many Iranians to get their permanent residence in Canada. Is there any advice that you can give? You're in Calgary, and you know the problem very well.
I want to say this—they're in all of our offices, all 338. Those who are here are in our offices trying to get information that is not available right now, or is very hard to get.
As An Individual
Thank you for that question.
As you know, there are thousands of Iranians from coast to coast in Canada who are involved with this issue. We believe that the main issue is caused by not profiling in the right way. By profiling, I mean there is a security system that....
We do appreciate the existence of that because we want to raise our children here and we're going to integrate into this country for sure. At the same time, there should be indicators that find the right people to be sent for comprehensive security screenings versus regular screenings. When you send all Iranians for comprehensive security screenings and the queue for that system to be processed is a long wait, it's going to take a long time. The easiest way would be to do better profiling for all applicants across the board. It doesn't matter where they are from.
Liberal
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and I thank the witnesses for their presentations. In the limited time we have, I know that the Iranian applications are from highly skilled, highly talented individuals who bring a lot to Canada in terms of our economy. Employers are looking for them. They want them especially in the high-tech sector and the new economy sector.
My understanding is that in some of these cases, the average processing time is about a year. In the spreadsheet I have in my office, on which there are some 77 applications, they're over two years. Is that the general experience from your community?
Vice-President, Iranian Canadian Congress
Maybe Mahdi is better off answering this. Go ahead, Mahdi.
As An Individual
The thing is, when you look at the processing time for Iranian applications and you look at all the streams, there is no evidence coming from the government, because they have not released any data. We know that based on the data that came from the government in 2015, the wait time for Iranians was 90% higher than others all over the world, and in 2017 it was about 40% higher.
Again, we have self-extracted data that shows, for instance, that if the average time for express entry is six months, we are looking at 18 months, or if the average for PNP is 15 months to 19 months, we are looking at somewhere between 27 to even 30 months.
Yes, that's true all across. Even the QSW is the same thing. It rarely happens that we can get the application process done in the normal processing time.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
We also learned of a situation in the Paris office, for example, where of at least 15 applications in the Paris office, nine had gotten their security screening, criminality screening, and medical checks successfully completed, yet the applicants had not been notified. Their files were just somehow sitting there gathering dust. We asked IRCC how that could possibly be, because all the screening had been completed, yet the applicants had not been notified that they had been approved and they were just still waiting and waiting.
I wonder if any of you can shed some light on that experience.
As An Individual
I have first-hand experience with that. I'm representing this campaign, so I hear from them. I have been talking to 15 of them who applied in 2011 or 2012. They have passed every single stage of the immigration system under the IRPA—inadmissibility, criminality, medical—but basically there's been no response and the government is not releasing any data as to why these applications are on hold.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
You also often have a situation that when people inquire about it, the one-word answer they get is “unknown” or “pending”. Is that correct?
As An Individual
I personally have emailed the Minister of Public Safety, and the result that I got from that minister is that the security screenings are in process and there is no timeline for that provided for you guys.
Vice-President, Iranian Canadian Congress
It seems everybody is being sent towards a comprehensive security screening to begin with. That's the real problem all Iranians face, based on their nationality.
Liberal