Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2018

[Michele Klein Solomon]

Typical ones are that—

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

On a point of order, can we have the witness have at least a minute or more to answer questions? She only has maybe 10 seconds, 11 seconds at max, to answer something. You cannot give a clear and concise answer in 11 seconds.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

It is my time, Mr. Chair, and I only have a minute left, I believe.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

It is your time, but I would just remind the member that if the witness has answered a question, she has a right to not answer it again if she's being asked the same question several times. She has the right to answer a question—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I am asking a question. Just on this point of order, the compact and a lot of the criticism of it is suggesting that there would be some sort of reporting standard or terminology. I and my colleague, who's the immigration minister in Ontario, have been called many names by the Prime Minister and our immigration minister for raising the fact that we don't believe that people are fleeing persecution from upstate New York, for example.

Maybe I'll be more direct. Under the global compact for migration, would you suggest that my coming out and calling somebody who is illegally crossing the border from the United States into Canada an illegal border crosser would be incorrect terminology that the global compact would seek to correct?

[Michele Klein Solomon]

No, somebody who crosses without authorization crosses without authorization.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

So is “illegal border crosser” correct terminology under the global compact for migration?

[Michele Klein Solomon]

There's nothing that prohibits that terminology. Normally, what the UN would say—but it's not a requirement and it's not censorship—is that it's someone who crosses irregularly. It is possible to use “illegal” as well. We prefer the term “irregular”, but we're not going to sanction anybody for using the term “illegal”.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Under the global compact, if Canada were reviewed for this, how would that be treated? Would journalists be—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm sorry, your time is over.

Ms. Kwan, it's your time.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I thank all the witnesses for their presentations.

It's interesting that as we embark on this discussion, some people insist on saying that asylum seekers are crossing over illegally, when here in Canada, our law, the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, explicitly states that those who are crossing over irregularly are not committing a criminal offence.

With that said, my question is this, and I'll be very blunt. The Conservatives in the House of Commons, I think it was just this week, asked the Prime Minister to step away from the global compact. I would really like to hear from our witnesses what the implications are for Canada if we do that.

We will start with the folks on screen, if you don't mind. Ms. Kaastra-Mutoigo has offered some of those thoughts already. If we could start with the folks on screen, I would appreciate that.

[Michele Klein Solomon]

Perhaps Stéphane could comment.

[Stéphane Vinhas]

I do not think that policies or laws, or even seeing sovereignty as a wall, will prevent migration. That is why I insist once again that work must be done on the root causes of migration. In addition, as you so rightly said, people arriving in Canada must be given every possible protection to ensure their dignity as human beings.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

I'll go to our second witness and then I'll ask my follow-up question.

[Michele Klein Solomon]

Thank you very much.

You asked specifically what the implication for Canada would be of stepping away. I think there are three main implications.

First, there would be a loss of co-operation, which is desperately needed, and trust to be able to address what is fundamentally a cross-national transborder phenomenon. I don't mean just with your southern neighbour but across the world. The real risk is a loss of co-operation.

Second would be a loss of Canada's international standing, and, as was said so well in previous statements, Canada's historical commitment to fair and just immigration and refugee policies as well as leadership internationally.

Third would be the very specific needs that Canada will have in terms of addressing what is a reality of migration, which will not go away whether or not Canada becomes a part of this framework. You will lose the ability to have tools that can help in working together to make your response more effective.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

Do you have anything else to add, Ms. Kaastra-Mutoigo?

[Ida Kaastra-Mutoigo]

For me the biggest loss is our care and our generosity for people who suffer. For me that is the most depressing thing to think about.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

We and our guests have noted the situation globally and the need for co-operation—hence the compact. In terms of direct action from Canada, aside from being part of the compact, what do you think Canada can offer at the table? Is it leveraging more aid, for example? Some have said to us in our travels to Uganda that we need to make sure that we continue to accept resettlement numbers even though we can't resettle everyone. It is also a signal to everyone that we are part of the solution and that resettlement is a component of it. It is not all of it, but it is a component of it.

To that end, I wonder if you have any specific recommendations in terms of direct action for Canada to undertake beyond the compact.

Again, I'll go through all of the speakers in the same order that they answered the previous question.

[Stéphane Vinhas]

Despite its enviable situation, Canada welcomes the equivalent of 1.7% of all displaced persons, according to 2016 figures. Given Canada's economic situation, progress is still to be made in that welcome.

The most important thing is for Canada to increase the funding it provides to host countries, generally countries of the south, those that receive most migrants and refugees. This is so that they can face up to emergency situations and increase their developmental capacity. In that way, those host countries of the south will be better able to welcome migrants and to provide them with protection and dignity. If migrants are not helped in transit countries, they will possibly end up in Canada.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Do you have a suggestion by way of a percentage or a specific number?

[Stéphane Vinhas]

I am sorry, but what percentage are you referring to?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I mean resettlement numbers.

[Stéphane Vinhas]

I do not have those figures. It is up to Canada to do its own financial analysis and determine its ability to provide a welcome. However, if we compare ourselves to countries like Jordan and Lebanon, which are receiving millions of people without the financial ability to do so, it is certain that Canada can do a lot more.

That said, once more, welcoming migrants and refugees to Canada is not necessarily the preferred solution. The best solution would be to make sure that people do not leave their homes. That is the most important.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

[Michele Klein Solomon]

That was very well said by Stéphane. In many respects, the longer-term picture about migration patterns—and I'm not talking about refugees here—is that we need to look at what leads people to move. Oftentimes, it's a lack of opportunity at home.

The commitment of Canada and other governments around the world to the longer-term sustainable development agenda of reducing insecurity and conflict ends up fostering development and improving conditions for people to live safe and dignified lives at home and to not be in a context that forces them to move, including from the results of increasing environmental degradation exacerbated by climate change. Many things that affect both migratory and refugee policies and practices can be done to improve conditions and to limit the risks to individuals. Canada is in a position to help lead the way on that.