Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 26th, 2018

[Matt DeCourcey]

I spoke about strengthening international co-operation and having not just the entire global community but also regional blocks of countries, and countries in a bilateral nature, sign and initiate agreements that support better management of migration. It talks about better data collection and a better understanding of the situations that those who migrate face.

It talks about flexibility for pathways toward regular migration, and again, I think Canada has a lot to share with the global community in that regard. We have a number of different pathways for people to come to our country, to seek economic benefit, to reunite with their families, or through a number of different refugee streams. We have both permanent and temporary pathways. We have a rather mature system. We still have things to learn from other countries around the world, but we have a rather mature system and a lot of good practices that we can share with the rest of the world.

Also, baked in there is the idea of promoting better and more coordinated border management between countries, to help ensure that when migration takes place, as much as possible, it takes place in a safe, orderly and regular fashion.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

So it doesn't in any way prevent other bilateral or multilateral agreements, like the safe third country agreement. It would not prevent sovereign nations from making a grievance to control or manage the flow that they have.

[Matt DeCourcey]

No. Again, in objective 23, there's specific reference to conducting, signing and going into bilateral agreements that can help manage migration between two countries, and help coordinate the way that we would manage the border, which the safe third country agreement seeks to do.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

How can the global compact on migration help situations such as the vast caravans that are coming in from South America, going through Mexico and coming up?

If this agreement were in place, how would it help situations like that? Do you have any examples? In what way would it encourage those states along the way to manage those flows of migration? How would it affect the kind of situation that we're seeing right now?

[Matt DeCourcey]

In some cases, the work of the compact builds upon comprehensive refugee response frameworks that are put in place in different regions around the world, and it helps coordinate actions of countries in specific regions that are experiencing trends like we're seeing through Latin and Central America into Mexico now.

It acknowledges that the answer is much broader than just supports to host countries and refugee resettlement. It acknowledges that it is about galvanizing the global community around new, innovative development assistance methods, providing different types of humanitarian support, and diplomacy in all of its elements.

It also recognizes that, within a caravan such as we're seeing right now, there are a number of different vulnerabilities that people face. We need to better understand the situation and why different people are migrating for fear, persecution, economic opportunity, or for all those other reasons.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Maguire, for five minutes.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to ask a couple of quick questions on the resettlement side, if I could, Ms. Greene.

I think I caught you correctly when you said that there were changes that may take place in the definition of a refugee. Does the global compact on refugees change Canada's definition of a refugee, or how it will be dealt with?

[Matt DeCourcey]

It doesn't change the definition of a refugee.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I was asking Ms. Greene.

[Matt DeCourcey]

It maintains the definition of a refugee that is in the 1951 convention.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

So the answer is no, it doesn't?

[Matt DeCourcey]

It maintains the definition of a refugee as per the 1951 convention.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Then I would want to ask Ms. Greene about this as well, because the document itself mentions the idea of climate refugees a number of times. Are you saying that Canada won't adopt any changes because of climate refugees?

I want Ms. Greene to answer, Mr. DeCourcey, so you don't waste my time on this.

[Matt DeCourcey]

I'm not wasting your time. I'm giving you an answer.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I didn't ask you to.

[Matt DeCourcey]

It doesn't change the definition of a refugee. The global compact on safe, orderly and regular migration recognizes that people are on the move for a whole host of reasons, whether it be for economic opportunity, for lack of safe haven due to war and conflict, for fear of persecution based on a whole range of things, or because climate change is real. There are island nations in the South Pacific—

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. DeCourcey, I sit on the Arctic climate change committee. I know it's real.

Can I just ask the question?

[Matt DeCourcey]

—that are undergoing severe storm systems and will soon be under water, and there are countries in Africa that are experiencing extreme drought and are therefore severely food insecure. These are all reasons that people are migrating and we need to understand these root causes, and work in collaboration and seek better pathways to support migration.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

All I'm asking about is how you're saying there is no change. You answered that yourself, Mr. DeCourcey, and now you're saying a big change is going to happen because of climate change.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Could I have order, please? I'll just remind both the witness and the member that only one person should speak at a time, because the interpreters cannot follow two or three or four conversations.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Could I ask the question to the person I asked it to, and see if I get an answer?

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Ask your question.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I just did.

I sit on the Arctic climate change committee. I'm very well aware that climate change is taking place in the world. The answer that the member gave was, no, there's no change. But all I'm asking is what changes will occur because of the changes that are happening in climate change.

Ms. Greene, thank you.

[Susan Greene]

I think we are talking about two different things. First of all, the 1951 convention definition of a refugee has not changed. It has been reaffirmed by the global compact on refugees. What's pointed to in the document, however, is a reference to mixed migration. This is something that we as governments and other nations have been aware of for quite some time.

Mixed migration means that people are moving from state to state. There could be refugees. There could be economic migrants within those flows as well. What the Government of Canada's resettlement program takes into account is that complexity within the situation. That is why we have, among our resettled individuals, those who are defined as refugees, and it's also why we have exceptional public policies, which the minister can utilize at his discretion to bring in those who are, for example, IDPs, such as we saw with the survivors of Daesh..

[Matt DeCourcey]

But, if I can add, Mr. Maguire, and this is a really important point for us all to remember.... Any decisions the Government of Canada makes as a result of signing these two compacts will be based on the political considerations taken by the government of the day, because these compacts reinforce the sovereign right of individual countries to make decisions based on migration and refugee support.