Evidence of meeting #136 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was global.
A video is available from Parliament.
Associate Director, Global Migration Lab, As an Individual
Canada should focus on the comprehensive refugee response framework as it's been negotiated painstakingly between host and donor states.
Very briefly, and somewhat politically on this idea, Canada will run squarely into Europe's interests on migration controls if you try to take money from authoritarian states to pay for asylum seekers. I can point specifically to the Sudanese government, which has paid several hundreds of millions of euros per year to control migration through their country—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
I'm afraid I need to end you there. Thank you very much.
Ms. Boucher, you have the floor for five minutes.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm new to this committee. I'm acting as a replacement today.
I had already heard about this compact, because I keep an eye on the international issues as well.
I would like an explanation. I just saw that, barely three hours ago, another country refused to sign the compact. This country joins a long list of countries that refuse to sign the compact because they find it too restrictive.
Why are so many countries refusing to sign the compact? In that case, why should Canada sign it? From what I've read, a large number of countries are refusing to sign the compact. I would like an explanation for their refusal to sign it. Why should Canada sign a compact that more and more other countries are refusing to sign?
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
You're referring to the global compact for migration and not the global compact on refugees. Is that correct?
Conservative
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
It's not up to the UNHCR to answer this question. It's up to the International Organization for Migration, and you were joined by a representative from that organization here last week.
Conservative
Associate Director, Global Migration Lab, As an Individual
If I might respond in English—
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Yes. I have no problem with that.
Associate Director, Global Migration Lab, As an Individual
As I mentioned earlier, it's 10 countries approximately, but on the domestic politics in the countries under question, again, look at Viktor Orban's Hungary. Look at Austria right now. Look at the government and rule of law in Poland. These are places where xenophobic, right-wing, anti-UN sentiment gets votes. That's the whole answer, in my opinion.
Conservative
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair and my colleagues.
Thank you, Mr. Smith. I appreciate that frankness, and I was going to ask the same question that my colleague did, Mr. Tabbara. I don't know if you answered it in the previous question or not, but it's in regard to our presentation from Mr. Axworthy from the World Refugee Council. They're formed to try to bring countries together to figure out how we can solve these refugee situations and crises that are developing around the world. Obviously you can't relocate everybody; we have to figure out a way to make sure that we can get them back on their own turf, on their own ground. Those were the first couple of things that you had for timelines, Mr. Beuze, as well.
On confiscating frozen assets, realigning them back into it, Mr. Axworthy had a big article in I believe the Winnipeg Free Press over the weekend, and he had a very clear statement on how to develop that. I wonder if you can see if the World Refugee Council is a body that could be utilized or if there is something else. They're bringing countries together instead of worrying about whether they're signing the compact or not.
It's getting the ones together, as I believe you said, Mr. Smith, that share the burden. It's not whether or not we sign the compact; it's how we get them together, and how does everybody work to make sure that we have an efficient means of being able to relocate these people and deal with the country's problems that they have in their home states.
Associate Director, Global Migration Lab, As an Individual
Lloyd Axworthy knows a lot more about the dynamics of diplomacy and international politics than I do, obviously. With respect to the work of the World Refugee Council, one of their mandates is to think outside the box about how to address global displacement crises. Again, we have the 1951 refugee convention. We have the 1967 protocols. We have the international refugee regime and UNHCR. The IOM joined the UN system this year. We have, for the first time in a very long time, the makings of a global governance regime for international mobility, which is something that hasn't existed, despite the fact that human mobility is one of the last issue areas that doesn't have a global regime. I think that's where we should focus our attention.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
That's five minutes. Thank you.
Mr. Whalen, we can have maybe two or three minutes from you.
November 29th, 2018 / 4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Okay. We'll have to keep it tight.
I would like to focus on what Mr. Smith mentioned earlier, which is the how. Canada's currently at 0.26% GNI on the ODA, and if we were even just to get to the average, we'd have to add a billion dollars to our assistance. To get to where we're expected to be, we'd have to add about $7 billion.
If we added a billion, how far would that go in helping address the refugee crisis? If you don't have an idea about where a billion would go, maybe Mr. Beuze does.
Associate Director, Global Migration Lab, As an Individual
I'm going to defer.
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
Our funding requirement's at $8 billion. As I mentioned, we are going to receive approximately $4 billion, so if you were contributing another $1 billion to the UN refugee agency, you would have a major impact, as you can imagine. Even if it was distributed among different humanitarian partners—Canadian NGOs, international NGOs, local NGOs—it would make a massive difference in the lives of people and therefore protect them against the feeling that they have only one choice, which is to continue their roles through all kinds of means, including irregular means and using trafficking.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Mr. Smith, maybe I'll ask the question in a slightly different way. If Canada was living up to its ODA goals, and if other countries were as well—because the OECD average, again, is less than half of what the aspirational commitment is that the U.K. and the Nordic countries meet or exceed—how would that have maybe even prevented these humanitarian refugee crises altogether?
Associate Director, Global Migration Lab, As an Individual
I'm very glad that you framed the question that way.
If you look at the proximate triggers and the catalysts for the 2015 migration crisis into Europe, that was because the carrying capacity, or the coverage capacity, of the humanitarian aid to host states in the Middle East decreased so substantially that people had to make the choice to move. That was the catalyst. It wasn't Angela Merkel saying that the doors were open. The timelines don't bear out that analysis at all. That's the answer, and I can share the numbers with you quite readily.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
I think that's the key point. ODA is meant to prevent these crises from happening, and I think because it's so underfunded, including by us.... It's great that our economic growth exceeds inflation, which is maybe one of the reasons we haven't hit our campaign's stated targets, but I think it's time that we do. To that extent, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
In terms of the budget for your organization, again, Mr. Beuze, is there an opportunity for Canada to help or encourage other countries also to up their commitments, and what would be required of Canada in order to have the street credibility in order to make our pleas to other countries better received?
Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
The high commissioner came to Canada to say that he counts on the leadership of Canada to be an example for other countries, including in terms of the level of funding dedicated to the response to refugees. Definitely, it makes a difference when we can refer to Canada having increased, for example, its ODA.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
We need to end this panel there. We're going to take a very brief break to switch panels. Just as a reminder, this next session goes to until 5:15, and then we move in to a business meeting to give drafting instructions to the analysts for the report. We'll pause very briefly to switch around.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
I'm going to call this meeting back to order to keep going.
We're delighted to have witnesses with us for this continuation of the study of migration challenges and opportunities for Canada in the 21st century and to continue our discussion about the global compacts.
We're going to begin with Professor Clark-Kazak. Thank you for joining us again.