Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 11th, 2018

[Bruce Cohen]

The program is the economic mobility pathways project. It is under way, so it's difficult to say how many people will be able to take advantage of the program initially. However, in its pilot phase, possibly a few dozen matches will be made to test the thesis that refugees can enter and be productive immediately.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

In terms of the overall need, Canada, as was noted, is in a situation where we have a labour and skills shortage. We're in a situation where in some provinces, and particularly in the Atlantic provinces, there are more people dying than there are people being born. We need refugees. We need immigrants. We need newcomers. As was mentioned, this country was built by newcomers. To that end, it does tie into the levels.

Right now, we are receiving, in all of the different streams, 350,000, which is 1% of the overall population. The question was asked about whether or not we can absorb more. Economists would say that we can. In fact, the government had undertaken to form a special advisory group—an expert panel, if you will. It recommended half a million—450,000.

With respect to refugees, given that there is a humanitarian crisis, with 70 million people displaced across the globe, and given that we know what contributions refugees do make to our Canadian society.... With respect to government programming, would you advocate for government to increase our levels? Don't give me a number, but should we increase our levels? At the moment, what Canada contributes, with all of our streams put together, is about 0.1%, in terms of our contribution to the overall global crisis. Do you think we can do more?

We'll just go down the line this way.

[Mustafa Alio]

The short answer is yes. Definitely, Canada can and should do more. There is a general sense right now in Canadian society that privately sponsored refugees are better educated than government-sponsored refugees, and that implies that government-sponsored refugees can't contribute as much.

One of the programs that Jumpstart initially started was about construction. We found out that the construction field here in Canada has a lot of shortages, and needs a lot of skills. We have a database of over 800 refugees across Canada. At that point, 60% to 70% of government-sponsored refugees who were going to hotels had a construction background. We were able to create a pilot project. As long as people were willing to think out of the box.... We partnered with over six organizations, and that was an effort led by Senator Ratna Omidvar.

The government funded a program. In the pilot, out of 94 graduates from construction.... We're talking about government-sponsored refugees who had English levels from 0 to 2 on the CLB, which goes from 0 to 8. Of the 94 graduates, over 50 found jobs. Over 40 of those were full-time jobs. Over 20 of them were unionized jobs. We're talking about people who otherwise could have stayed on welfare for a longer time.

What I'm saying is that we can do more. We proved it. If we think out of the box, and if we have the will, we can definitely do it.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Dureid, do you have anything else to add?

[Muzna Dureid]

My focus is human rights defenders. Canada could also create fast-tracking to protect human rights defenders under threat or at risk, as was happening with Rohingya women. That would also help all activists come to Canada by legal and faster means, and to continue their work here.

Canada could do more.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Cohen.

[Bruce Cohen]

The employers we work with would like to see more skilled employees and more opportunities. Canada is a leader in the world on these issues. The most I can say is that I would hope Canada would do all it can, because they are so compelling.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Mr. Cohen.

Mr. Ayoub.

[Ramez Ayoub, Thérèse-De Blainville, Lib.]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to ask my questions in French.

I thank all of the witnesses for being here today.

Ms. Dureid, I would first like to congratulate you on your achievements. I'd like you to tell us more about the Global Compact for Safe, Orderly and Regular Migration. Countries do not sign on to that pact. They ratify it and make a voluntary commitment; there are 180 countries. Canada is one day away from ratifying it.

You focused on the importance of that pact, which made me even more of a believer. However, there are some members around this table from other political parties, particularly the Conservative Party, who are against that pact.

What are your views about that negative attitude toward the pact?

[Muzna Dureid]

As I mentioned, by saying no to the pact, you are saying yes to rape, slavery and human trafficking.

Why? It's because if you approach all of the problems going on in this world through legislation, you can arrive at solutions that will meet the needs of people and of governments.

The pact distributes responsibilities among the countries that agree to it. It also will allow countries to work together on developing practices.

[Ramez Ayoub]

Better practices?

[Muzna Dureid]

Exactly, especially as concerns the mechanisms used throughout the world. It will also allow for the pooling of information, as well as of methods adopted by various countries. There are a lot of details, but generally speaking, it legalizes and distributes responsibilities so that no one can hide. It allows the states to be on the ground with the others to find solutions.

[Ramez Ayoub]

Mr. Cohen, do you want to add something?

[Bruce Cohen]

I do.

The program we're working on, opening up labour pathways for skilled refugees, is not compelled by the compact. It is fully consistent with the compact.

In objective (5), the provision is about enhancing the availability and flexibility of economic migration for displaced people, which is fully consistent with what we're working on in EMPP and what we're urging.

It will also, if I can echo Muzna's comments, make it possible for more countries in the world, countries that are not necessarily resettlement countries, that take resettlement cases.... The most vulnerable will be refugees. It may allow them to help share some of the burden if they were to open up their economic opportunities to refugees and displaced people, as well.

[Ramez Ayoub]

If there were to be a change in government—which I hope not to see—how do you feel about the possibility that the new government might withdraw its agreement regarding this Global Compact?

What is your point of view on that, Mr. Cohen?

[Bruce Cohen]

I feel constrained about offering opinions to Canadians about Canadian policy. Respectfully, we believe the provisions in the compact that I have spoken about are useful and valuable, but....

[Ramez Ayoub]

Would there be advantages to withdrawing from the compact?

[Bruce Cohen]

Not that I know.

[Ramez Ayoub]

Not that you know.

[Muzna Dureid]

Morally speaking, no.

[Ramez Ayoub]

What do you think more specifically, Ms. Dureid?

[Muzna Dureid]

Morally speaking, we can't be used as political weapons, or as pawns, by political parties.

[Ramez Ayoub]

Mr. Alio, what do you think?

[Mustafa Alio]

I have one comment.

I always feel it's common sense for anyone to learn from their own journey. It's smart to learn from others' experiences.

I did negotiate drafts with state members in Geneva on the global compact. We did suggest.... One of the ironic things in the global compact is that when that started, the main issue of it was to increase and improve the resettlement. The final draft of the project actually turned not so much to this as actually sharing best practices.

When you refer to withdrawing from the agreement, for me it's withdraw from what? Is it to withdraw from actually learning from other nations that are doing something good and just not doing it and being stuck?

When I discussed topics with Germany or Ireland, it was really inspiring for them to learn what's working well in Canada and for me to learn what's working well over there, and that maybe we can share that.

We contributed to the draft the meaningful participation of refugees—Muzna and I—at that point. We contributed the fact of improving the data collection on refugees and hosting countries, and overseas.

Yet we keep saying that it's an unbinding agreement. It is an unbinding agreement. To be honest, it always boggles my mind every time I hear that someone is withdrawing from this. It's just withdrawing from learning best practices.

[Muzna Dureid]

The pact is not legally binding. I simply want that to be well understood.