Evidence of meeting #141 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was newcomers.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Yes, you're covering a lot of refugees there, for sure.
Ms. Choo, you made six recommendations. Can you give me your first one again?
5:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, S.U.C.C.E.S.S.
The first recommendation had to do with investment in the entire continuum of settlement services from pre-arrival to post-arrival to ensure that all newcomers have the information, resources and tools to succeed in Canada. Funding for settlement services needs to take into consideration settlement trends, demand for services, as well as patterns of secondary migration.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Can you expand on the vulnerability you talked about in your third recommendation?
5:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, S.U.C.C.E.S.S.
Sure. Thank you.
Certainly by supporting the vulnerable newcomers earlier, we anticipate cost savings down the road, as they will be less likely to require more costly health services, legal services or financial assistance from the government.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Both of you are talking about looking at the opportunities to do more training and education pre-entry to Canada. What time frames do you think are required, and how much of that would be extra language training?
5:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, S.U.C.C.E.S.S.
I think this is my fourth recommendation.
There's a need to support language training for newcomers. As you know, for newcomers in a new country with a new culture and language barriers, we would certainly like to see as soon as possible—within the first year or even six months—their acquiring skills, especially those occupation-specific skill sets. Language develops over time. Certainly I think it's important to introduce it at the earliest stage, rather than a later stage.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
My point was how much of that would be done before they arrive in Canada, and how much extra time would you add?
5:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, S.U.C.C.E.S.S.
I would suggest that a better way would be to provide some specific language training pre-arrival, maybe six months before they arrive in Canada, related to the jobs they are going to take. That would be a perfect way to support their journey.
5:10 p.m.
Liaison Officer, Canadian Orientation Abroad, International Organization for Migration
IOM was funded between 1990 and 1998 to provide language training to refugees before they arrived. We see how language training before arrival can benefit newcomers, but we often see as well that in some situations, especially with displaced and vulnerable people, language training might not be conducive in all cases.
We do see some barriers to refugee populations attending our orientation sessions, such as the need to work and things like that, but we can add language training if—
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Mr. Cecchetto, when I was preparing for committee today I looked through the website for Canadian Orientation Abroad. I noticed that it didn't have anything that mentioned women and girls. I'm just wondering if you could table with the committee any programming you provide to educate the women and girls who are coming to Canada on their rights. I have a similar question for the LGBT community as well—I guess both ways.
With the time I have left, could you present to the committee any specific best practices you have on resettling members of the LGBT community or members of a community who might be coming to Canada from one that's not supportive of their coming into a very inclusive country like Canada?
Do you see any gaps in resettlement services in Canada, specifically for educating women and girls on their rights when they come to Canada or the resources they have available to them? Similarly, I ask the same about the LGBT community.
5:15 p.m.
Liaison Officer, Canadian Orientation Abroad, International Organization for Migration
In addressing women and girls, in our sessions we focus on the equality of everyone here in Canada. We talk specifically about gender-based violence, and also domestic violence.
We go about it by talking about the legality of things in Canada. We don't make sweeping condemnations based on morality because it can be relative in some places. When we talk about FGM, for example, we don't talk about whether it's ethical or not; we talk about the law in Canada.
We have conducted LGBT-specific orientation sessions for vulnerable populations. We talk about LGBT services available here in Canada. It depends if those services are available where the refugees are going, but we have some resources that we can provide for them. We talk about equality and non-discrimination, and what to do in case you are discriminated against. Although Canada is a very accepting place and more accepting than a lot of places, newcomers do face ongoing discrimination, especially from their own communities that they may move into.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you to all of the witnesses for their presentations.
Mr. Cecchetto, here is my first question for you. In terms of the pre-arrival training, one of the issues you mentioned is credential recognition. Do you share with the individuals the process of credential recognition and what they have to undertake in order to have their credentials recognized?
5:15 p.m.
Liaison Officer, Canadian Orientation Abroad, International Organization for Migration
Yes. We do talk about credentials, such as educational or professional credentials, and the overarching process of getting them recognized here, but we face a challenge in our COA sessions because we don't necessarily know where all the refugees are going.
If they're GARs—government assisted refugees—they might not be destined yet when we see them, and in one orientation room we may have a mix of people going to all the provinces. Some of those recognition processes are very different depending on the province that you go to. What we talk about are the resources that are available post-arrival and the settlement services that can help refugees who are newcomers to better navigate credential recognition processing.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I wonder whether you have any recommendations for the committee in this regard, because one of the most difficult things for newcomers, whether they're immigrants, refugees or otherwise, is credential recognition, and once they arrive here, the process is enormously difficult.
We hear all the time that in the Lower Mainland we have highly educated people working on the farms or, as an example, driving taxis and so on. The big question is, what can Canada do, no matter what province or territory we are in, to address this issue? What can be done and what needs to be done?
In fact, for all of our presenters, if you have recommendations in that regard, I would ask you to please submit them to the committee so that we can learn from you and then engage in that process. I think it's critically important.
Related to that issue, for refugees and for GARs in particular, there is the question of how documentation is often lost when they flee or leave. They really don't have the capacity to even show their credentials. I've had one person come to my office who had lost all of their documentation. In fact, the institution where they got their credentials was bombed. It doesn't exist anymore. There's no way, no how that they could get that recognition. What do you do in that scenario, right? We're talking about a person who has earned their Ph.D. That's a bit of a thing. In that regard, how do we address this issue as well?
I don't know if anybody has suggestions on how we can address this. To me, this is a critical aspect of recognizing the talent and utilizing that talent here in Canada. I would ask you folks to table any suggestions you might have.
I do want to move along to the other two sets of witnesses that I've heard, but first I think I saw a hand.
Is that correct, Ms. Abdi-Aden?
January 30th, 2019 / 5:20 p.m.
Roukya Abdi-Aden Administrator, National Cooperation, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité Canada
Yes.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
If you want to jump in quickly, please do. I'm then going to go to Queenie.
5:20 p.m.
Administrator, National Cooperation, Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité Canada
In 80% of cases, those to whom we provided pre-departure services were in regulated professions. We very quickly faced this issue particularly when it came to veterinarians or engineers who had to enter the labour market. We provided them with personalized services. That is one of the things that worked very well.
Depending on their province of destination, we prepared a number of tools. It is important that these people find out, before they leave, which integration processes are specific to their profession. They must be given all the necessary information and support before they arrive. For example, they had to prepare for certain exams and for this whole process. The idea was also to bring them into contact with the community, in the case of certain regulated professions.
People very often thanked us. When they arrive unprepared, they end up in a vicious circle: they accept the fact that they cannot practise their profession and are ready to take the first job that comes along. However, because of the pre-departure services, they knew what was in store for them.
At the same time, we have created opportunities for them to make other career choices. For example, if a person who was a doctor could not practise the profession right away, we would suggest that they stay in the same field as their profession, in the health care system. The person then had time to catch up and do evaluations. This could help them avoid a vicious cycle and becoming a taxi driver, for example.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Just on that score, the practices you've engaged in or the best practices you think the government should adopt across the country would be useful information, if you could submit it to the committee.
I'll give you one example from the province of British Columbia. We have a shortfall of doctors. In fact, there were doctors who came in who could not get their credentials recognized. There was a program that the government could have funded but unfortunately didn't. It would have funded each spot at $60,000 to assess those doctors on the ground as though they were residents in a hospital, and then make the determination on their ability to do the job. If they were able to pass within that period, they would be given the credentials and would not have to go through the other process, and that would have met our doctor shortage.
I welcome any suggestions you might have in that regard.
I'm now going to switch to Queenie on that question, as well as on something I think is important—the funding differences between provinces and territories for the level of training. You touched on that, Queenie, and I wonder if you would share with our committee the importance of both equitable and high-level funding, because that's what helps the newcomers reach beyond minimum-wage jobs.
5:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, S.U.C.C.E.S.S.
Absolutely. Thank you MP Kwan.
I think this is very important. We look across Canada at not just recruiting the brightest and the smartest people to come, but also at a way to retain them. One of the strategies for that is to ensure there are resources available across our provinces and territories to ensure the settlement program is not only tailor-made to individual needs, but also that it is equitable across our country in order to retain those talents across the country.
Right now there are some differences among jurisdictions, and I think it is important to look across the board to retain our talents and our newcomers when they arrive in Canada.
5:25 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
In regard to the pre-arrival training sessions, do you provide information to the newcomers about family reunification? I've had scores of refugees who come in knowing nothing about the one-year window of opportunity program and so on, and they're desperate to unite with their family members.
Is that information provided to them? Do you have a recommendation to government on how that program should be adjusted, and on how the definition of “families” should perhaps be adjusted in order to really meet the needs of these new arrivals?
