Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 18th, 2019

[Salma Zahid]

Some 2,000 additional spaces have been reserved to increase the pathways to permanent residency for temporary foreign workers in NOC occupations beginning in 2019 under the provincial nominee program. Can you explain the motivation for this move and why it's important to ensure both that workplace vulnerability for workers is reduced and that a pathway to permanent residency is available when employers are trying to recruit people in markets where people with these skills are in demand?

[David Cashaback]

Sure. On the first part, the announcement was made last week of the introduction of 2,000 new spaces under the provincial nominee programs. We've distributed these to all the provincial nominee programs, to give a bit more space to transition temporary foreign workers—folks who are there, whom we require in the labour force—and retain them as permanent residents. This is really an initiative that's aimed to meet those regional labour market needs in some key sectors that the provinces, through their programs, will help determine. That's one thing to ensure that pathway.

In terms of your other question regarding worker protection, that's an area of a lot of activity between both departments that are there to ensure that there are protections in place for migrant workers, temporary foreign workers, from provision of information to regulatory changes that the department is considering, which the government has put forward to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm afraid I need to stop you there.

Mr. Maguire.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for their presentations today.

I have a number of questions, and I'd like to table some information that I require, Mr. Chair, if I can. I don't know if we'll have time at the end, or do we get another round?

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

You may. I would like to end.... We're going about 20 to 25 minutes over, and I think that's probably pushing it, so you may not get another round.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I'll just table them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

You might want to get them in there.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Mr. Massé, thank you.

My background is in agriculture, so I'm just wondering if you think there is currently a labour shortage in the agriculture and agri-food industries.

[Philippe Massé]

It's well known that the program is a recurring source of labour to ensure that employers have access to labour. Certainly their reports to us in terms of the program requirements, the advertising that they must do and the recruitment that they do demonstrate that they have difficulty attracting a local labour force to fill those jobs. I think that—on a punctual, annual basis—you would agree that there is a labour shortage there, and the program has been improving two-thirds.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

When I read the ESDC labour market information, it shows that there's not a labour shortage in agriculture. I just wonder if you can explain that. The economic contribution to agriculture is over $300 million a day, $111 billion a year. Do you think that the ESDC should recognize the ag and agri-food shortages and prioritize the temporary foreign worker program?

[Philippe Massé]

It depends on the type of data you're looking at and the type of analysis that you're looking at. If you're looking at some of the projections that the department just produced, these are 10-year projections, so they look over a very long time at what the expected shortage would be. These are very low-skilled occupations, so in that type of long-term meta analysis, the projections would show that markets would tend to balance over a long period of time.

Of course, in our program, we're looking at the situation year over year. Those are the assessments that we're making. Those are the types of differences and the types of data that exist.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I don't want to say that it's a misnomer, but certainly the terminologies are there. I'll just use an example. Critical shortages for butchers in the meat-processing plants are horrendous right now. What are the service delivery standards and timelines to process their applications for those in companies that have to pay $1,000 a worker, such as slaughterhouses for butchers? Can you give us an idea of the timelines?

[Katie Alexander, Executive Director, Temporary Foreign Worker Program, Program Operations, Service Canada, Department of Employment and Social Development]

As Mr. Massé mentioned, we're currently experiencing a higher than normal volume of files, a 26% increase over this time last year, which has resulted in a delay longer than expected for most compared to this time last year.

For a low-wage stream, we're looking at a processing time of approximately 90 days at this point. Agriculture is a little bit faster—it's about 40 days—and our seasonal agricultural worker program is about 15 to 16 days.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

That's not been my personal experience. I have farmers who have waited six months or more to get regular farm labourers. On-farm agriculture has the highest vacancy rate right now—it's about 7%—and the farmers and companies are going to see the gap grow in years to come, they're telling me. Why are farm workers and butchers not on a priority list for the IRCC, when some other industries may be? What can you do to make it more of a priority to shorten that length of time? They're going to the fields here in a couple of months and in some areas of Canada within a month.

[Philippe Massé]

The truth is that we want to make it shorter and more efficient for everyone. In particular in agriculture, we know they have a recurring need every year. This year has been particularly an eventful one given the introduction of biometrics. We've taken steps to facilitate that process, to have them apply earlier. We've given them an opportunity to apply for multiple arrivals on one application. Even in the current backlog situation, we are prioritizing within those applications the seasonal agricultural worker program, recognizing the need. We're doing everything that we can. We're continuing to look at the process to make that more efficient over time. We're going to an online system this month. We're managing the glut this year, but we're trying to make it efficient for all employers to get through the program.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Have you ever considered a trusted employer program where, if you've been bringing in the same seasonal ag workers for years and years, you don't have to go through the 70, 100 or 200 workers' names every year?

[Philippe Massé]

That's something that we are looking at. The idea would be sort of a NEXUS-like program for recurring employers who we know are in compliance with the program. That's how we could facilitate the processing there.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Another area is the audits and inspections. I've heard some real horror stories from some of the farm areas about how Service Canada has treated farmers through audits and the inspections process. I want to know how we can improve inspections, so that they are more responsive and transparent. I'll give you an example. One auditor worked exclusively on one audit for six months and refused to share even the most basic information with that farmer. The ESDC held up his applications, even after they denied that they would. These are industries that are very susceptible...perishable goods, like fruits, vegetables and those sorts of things, so six months can put a person out of business. I just wondered what you were doing in that regard and if you can look into that.

[Philippe Massé]

Certainly, we're highly sensitive to the impact inspections can have on employer operations. The goal of the inspections is to ensure that employers are complying, that the rules are being followed and that workers are being treated well. That being said, these are new processes that have been put in place within the last year to year and a half. There were some growing pains to begin with. The departments acknowledge that some improvements are needed and we've been engaging much more with the sector to identify those issues. They include communicating better about what the requirements are and what to expect during an inspection. We need to improve our communications between our inspectors and our processing folks to ensure that we're not needlessly holding up applications. Applications will only be held up if there's suspicion that there's some abuse happening in the workplace. We don't hold up applications if it's administrative verification or confirmation of data. It's really about when somebody is at risk or in danger of harm.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm afraid I need to end it. Did you have something written that you'd like to submit?

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I do, Mr. Chair, I will give you these pages of questions to have answered. I will turn these into the clerk.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I think it would be helpful.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm going to take one little minute and you'll still get your time. What I'm having trouble with on this is that I have met with agri-food people and food processors, who are talking about a crisis level, in terms of employment shortage. Those application numbers go up, but instead of getting them faster, we actually get them slower. Is there not some intelligence we can use? I don't mean smarts, I mean a system or an algorithm that says when we start to get this increase, if it's in an agri-food business, so that the process should actually go faster instead of slower. In my head, what seems to be happening is that it goes slower when it's more urgent because there are more applications. Can't we improve that?

[Philippe Massé]

We're looking to improve the processes. The reality is that we're funded to a certain level and we don't have more people to bring to the—