Evidence of meeting #30 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was class.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Robert Orr  Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
David Cashaback  Acting Director General, Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Paul Armstrong  Director General, Centralized Network, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

The meeting will now reconvene.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on February 25, the committee will begin its study on family reunification.

Today we have, as witnesses, the Honourable John McCallum, P.C., MP, Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship; Robert Orr, assistant deputy minister, operations; David Cashaback, acting director general, immigration branch; and Paul Armstrong, director general, centralized network.

I'd like to welcome the witnesses to our committee, and I would especially like to welcome back the minister.

We're looking forward to hearing from you, for seven minutes.

5 p.m.

Markham—Thornhill Ontario

Liberal

John McCallum LiberalMinister of Immigration

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. It's good to be back. I think I've been here a few times. It's always a pleasure. I'm very happy to be here with my officials.

I will make a few comments about the theme of your upcoming study on family reunification, and after that I'd be very happy to answer any questions you might have. I would like to give you a summary of the broad outlines of the program and also recent developments and changes we are planning to make. Then I'd be happy to take your questions.

Immigrants sponsored by family members make up one of three broad categories of immigrants within our system—the other two being economic immigrants and refugees.

Although economic immigration programs are responsible for the majority of newcomers who enter this country, the long-standing goal of reuniting families has been an important part of the history of Canada's immigration system, and it remains fundamental to that system.

Family class submissions can include spouses, partners, children, parents, or grandparents of the sponsor, and, in some limited cases, other family members.

Mr. Chair, from the mandate letter I received from the Prime Minister, and through subsequent announcements and actions, it is clear that we are placing a strong emphasis on family reunification. It might be said that especially our commitment on quicker processing time for immediate families, nuclear families, arguably is most important. It's a question of judgment. It's certainly one of the most important campaign commitments we made, and one on which we are very serious.

It's true, of course, that the refugee initiative got the lion's share of the media attention. It is very important, but if you go to the fundamentals of our system, the processing times for family class are also really important.

If you ask why we are welcoming new families, it's not just because we're kind, humanitarian people, because we think it's right that people should be reunited with their immediate families and should be able to bring their parents here. Hopefully we are that, but there's also a very economically important dimension to this. We are competing for strong immigrants with other countries around the world, with Australia, U.K., the United States. If we have strong immigrants we want to bring in and say, but you can't bring your family, or it will take you two years to bring your family, they may well go somewhere else.

It's not just a humanitarian gesture; it's also economic sense, in order to attract the so-called best and brightest. You're not going to attract them very well if you don't also allow them to bring their families in without substantial delay.

The other thing I would mention that's relevant for family class considerations—I perhaps have said this here before—is that I don't particularly like the term “economic immigrant”. It almost has the implication that the others are non-economic or have little economic value, and that is not true. The family class spouses generally do as well in the labour market as the spouses of economic immigrants. A significant fraction of the parents and grandparents are in the labour force. Even those who are not in the labour force among parents and grandparents facilitate the work of the mother and father by helping to look after the children. It's a question of degree. All immigrants make both economic and non-economic contributions. We want to give priority to family class, not just to benefit immigrants by allowing them to bring families, but also because it promotes a more successful immigration program for the country as a whole, for economic reasons as well as other reasons.

To that end, we have admitted more family class immigrants in 2016 than normal.

We have 80,000 admissions in the family class, including about 60,000 partners and children, and 20,000 parents and grandparents. How are we going to bring down processing times for families? We have three ways. We're admitting more family class immigrants. If you admit more, you run down the inventory more, and that helps to reduce the processing times. We've also put more money into the system, $25 million, to support family class immigrants. We're trying to become more efficient, as well, and this is partly through learning from our experience with the Syrian refugees. As you all know, we did it quickly, but I think we did it well in terms of health and security. How did we do it quickly and well? Well, we're looking at how we did it there, and we're importing some of those techniques into how we process family class and other categories of immigrants.

For example, we did things concurrently, instead of consecutively, and that speeds things up. If you do A and don't you start B until you complete A, and you don't start C until you complete B, it takes a lot longer than if you do A, B, and C all at the same time. The department has set up what they call “tiger teams”, groups of successful middle-level people who have worked in the system first-hand and who can bring new ideas and suggestions as to how to improve the process. So there are three ingredients to bringing down the processing times: higher levels of admission, more money, and more efficiency.

Through a combination of those things, we are reducing the inventory, the backlog of spouses, and I am hoping to be able to announce before the end of this year a substantial reduction in the processing times for spouses. However, we cannot make the announcement until we do the work to clear out the inventory, so that's why such an announcement is not immediate.

We increased the number of parents and grandparents who could apply each year from 5,000 to 10,000. We estimate that the inventory will be down to 46,000 by the end of 2016, from a peak of more than 165,000 in 2011. Those are big numbers, and that's going to make a big difference in how long it takes to admit the typical parent and grandparent from 165,000 in 2011 down to 46,000 by end of 2016. It's getting smaller, so those processing times will come down.

I will not say much more because I want to answer your questions, but let me just conclude by listing three other things we're in the process of doing. As we committed to in the election, we're going to give more points under express entry for siblings of Canadians. This is an idea I learned about in Vancouver. I think it's a good idea.

We're also going to raise the maximum age for dependent children from under 19 to under 22. We're also going to eliminate the conditional permanent residence measure for spouses and make them permanent residents on entry. Those last two are on their way. They require a regulatory process, so they're on their way to being gazetted, which I think is the term for consultation with Canadians, fairly soon. That regulatory process takes some time, even if it's something as simple as changing the age from 19 to 22. All I can say is that it's on the way to a process of consultation with Canadians in the not-to-distant future.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would be happy to answer your questions.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Thank you, Minister.

We'll now move to the seven-minute rounds of questioning to the minister.

Ms. Zahid, I understand you'll be splitting your time with Mr. Tabbara.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Thank you, Chair. Yes, I will be splitting my time with Mr. Tabbara.

Thank you, Minister, and thanks a lot for all the work you're doing on this important file. This topic that we are starting is very important to all of us, I think, and for me it is really very important. In the riding I represent, family reunification is a very big issue, and 90% of the casework in my office is related to immigration.

Minister, when you were here before our committee on June 9 to discuss the 2016 levels and the supplementary estimates, you discussed an adjustment to operating expenditures of $20.9 million to hire 191 full-time equivalents to support reducing existing family class inventories, increasing family class intake, and streamlining processing, among other activities. Have those people been hired? What impact have they made on the backlog?

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

I'll turn it over to Robert Orr for that specific question, but I would say that we've made a substantial reduction—some 21%—in the backlog. As to whether those people have been hired, I'm not sure.

5:10 p.m.

Robert Orr Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

A large number of those people have been hired. We have certainly been using the money very effectively. It is largely split between our international region and our centralized network.

I think we're seeing a reflection of that. As the minister said, the inventory has come down significantly. We've also seen a reduction in processing times for spouses, partners, and children. It has gone from 26 months to 22 months for those in Canada, and from 18 to 16 months for those overseas, so we're already starting to see a direct impact of the funds that are being used.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Thank you.

Minister, I represent a large Filipino community in my riding of Scarborough Centre, as does Mr. Sarai in Surrey. We have both heard from our constituents that caregivers in particular face a longer wait time for family reunification processing. What is being done in that regard?

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

I was recently in the Philippines and talked about that issue. I've met with caregivers. I think they do a very valuable service, including, as I think I've said here before, for my mother, who is 92 years old and has a great Filipino caregiver.

I acknowledge that there are problems here, that there are challenges here, and that the processing time is too long. That processing time is coming down and will continue to come down, but it is still too high. The general process for fixing it is the same as what I said for nuclear families: it's a combination of higher levels, more money, and more efficiency. It's really the same across the board.

There is some limited progress there, but we don't have all the money in the world. We have to choose priorities. My top priority was the nuclear family, the immediate spouses and the immediate dependants, but we're also working to try to improve the situation for caregivers.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Thank you, Minister.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Mr. Tabbara, you have three and a half minutes.

October 4th, 2016 / 5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Thank you.

The average processing time for the family class started to increase in 2005. In 2012 the overall processing time for parents and grandparents was 58 months. That's almost five years. Could you elaborate on what changes in legislation—for example, on regulations—led to that outcome?

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

Do you mean since 2005?

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Yes.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

It was certainly the case—and I remember documenting this when we were in opposition—that the processing times from 2005 to 2014 or so were up quite dramatically for the family class. I think a part of it was that they were starved for funds and starved for levels space. I told you that there were three things: money, levels space, and efficiency. If you starve them for levels and you starve them for money, your processing times will go up.

I don't have a precise analysis of that, but I remember from the opposition days certainly documenting the upward trend in processing times. There were budgetary reductions in certain years. I think those were the main reasons. I think your committee could look into that in more detail in your study, but that would be my impression.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Thank you.

Minister, you came to my region and the Waterloo region before, and you met with a lot of individuals there. It's the high-tech sector of Canada, and one of their biggest issues was—and I know you don't like to use the term—economic immigrants—

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

I don't mind. Everybody else does.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

They're looking to get the best and brightest in the high-tech sector to come into our region, and one of the main issues they're having is immigration. It's taking a very long time for these highly skilled workers to come to our region to immigrate here.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

I agree with that and I've spoken to high-tech people in various parts of the country, including your region, but also in Toronto, Burnaby, Vancouver, and Ottawa, and they basically all say the same thing. If we say the processing time is six months, they say it has to be six days. They're always in a rush and they're in very globally competitive industries. We will try to do a better job for people in those industries because we think they have a lot to offer, and these are very high-growth industries that, as you know, are important in your region, but they're important in various parts of the country.

In general, what we are trying to do is make Canada a better destination for the so-called best and the brightest. Some people object to that term, because we also need lower skilled people. We certainly want to be competitive with those other competitive countries I mentioned, and that's why we're going to introduce more points under express entry for students. I think everywhere I go nobody disagrees when I say that, of all the people who might become new Canadians, international students are probably the number one choice. They're young, etc.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Thank you.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

Just to finish quickly then, we're doing various things to make it easier for the so-called best and the brightest to come to Canada, both as temporary workers and permanent residents.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Thank you, Minister.

Ms. Rempel, I believe you're splitting your time with Mr. Saroya.

That will be seven minutes.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Minister, you mentioned the need to look at different classes of reunification from different cohorts of people who are in Canada, and you mentioned refugees being part of that.

I've had a woman from the Blue Sea region of Quebec call me at my office about three times a week. She's a Haitian woman. She's come to Canada and she has relatives in Haiti she's been trying to sponsor to Canada. Obviously, their situation has been exacerbated by the devastating earthquake that happened in 2010. She's expressed frustration to us, and she feels that other cohorts of people outside of the Syrian refugee community are being neglected in being sponsored to Canada or reunified with their families.

I'm not quite sure just what to tell her, and she phones me three times a week every week, and I'd just like to send her a clip of your response, and I'd like to give her the opportunity, basically, to ask you a question directly. What are you doing for the Haitian community in terms of unifying them and giving them opportunities to come to Canada?

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

It's funny you should mention that community, because, obviously, this is not a Liberal-planted question, but it could have been, because—

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Oh, my goodness. Standing up for constituents in a non-partisan way, it's crazy.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON

All right.

What I'm trying to say is that this is a community we've really reached out to in order to help. I'm saying maybe one of these people might have asked me that, because we made a huge effort. There were Haitians admitted into Canada because of the earthquake back in 2010, and a number of them were undocumented, and we went out of our way to reach out to that community to encourage them to come forward.

I had a press conference in the Haitian part of Montreal with my colleague, the member from Bourassa, who is Haitian, along with the Quebec immigration minister, and we spoke to Haitian radio stations. Our friend went to Haitian churches to really appeal to the people to come forward. We had a simplified form. We even had a special loan that they could take, because we wanted them to come forward so they could become regularized as Canadians.

Now, I'll be honest with you. Not as many came forward as we were hoping, notwithstanding these appeals. I don't know whether it was because we didn't reach them all or we didn't know exactly how many there were, because if they're undocumented, we don't know for sure the exact number.

All I can say to you is that we did everything that we could conceive of to try to appeal to these people to come forward so that we could welcome them as permanent residents, given that they had come here under the special circumstances of the earthquake.