Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 25th, 2016

[Erika Garcia]

Especially for refugees who have gained permanent residency here through the refugee protection program, many of those are highly skilled in many professions. They have left and come to Canada because they have to flee for reasons not in their control. Unfortunately, when they come here they're not really established and they don't have a job waiting for them. They do want to sponsor their families at some point. It can be very costly for someone who doesn't have employment yet. Five hundred and fifty dollars per applicant and $120 per child can be a lot, especially if you want to bring your husband, for example, and two of your children who have been left behind because, for some reason, they haven't been able to come.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Ms. Garcia.

Mr. Ehsassi, you have seven minutes, please.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

First, I would also like to thank the witnesses for their testimony today. What we've heard today over the course of this hour and the previous hour has obviously been very helpful.

Since there have been no questions directed at Ms. Albert, I just thought I'd ask a few questions there.

The first one is this. I had the opportunity to read your written submission, and I must say it's very much at odds with what we've been hearing from other specialists who have been appearing before this committee. That said, we've heard from an impressive range of individuals: settlement workers who have first-hand experience, academics, lawyers. Could you tell us what your experience has been and what you're drawing on?

[Gishelle Albert]

My background is in public policy and public administration. I've done a lot of research on immigration.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

But you don't work at a settlement agency, or you don't specifically work on immigration matters, do you?

[Gishelle Albert]

No. I work in corporate governance, which has nothing to do with immigration.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I was just reviewing what you were saying and what you've stated in your written submission. You have very strong opinions. Is there any affiliation that you think may have coloured your judgment? Are you part of an association, a riding association perhaps that may inform your strong opinions?

[Gishelle Albert]

I don't feel like my judgment is coloured in any way. I just feel like I'm a taxpayer. I look at the facts. I've done research papers on immigration, and that's my opinion.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Okay.

In terms of research and research papers, one of the things you seem to be very much concerned about are parents and grandparents. As you know, the class that we refer to as family reunification extends way beyond just parents and grandparents. But let's just stick to parents and grandparents.

We have research presented to us by Professor VanderPlaat of Saint Mary's University that suggests that approximately 70% of sponsored parents and grandparents actually are employed. Earlier today, thanks to Mr. LeBlanc, we heard of some more research undertaken by Professor Yoko Yoshida that 74% of parents and grandparents are employed.

Do you have a sense as to what the numbers are, as to what percentage of parents and grandparents arriving here would be employed?

[Gishelle Albert]

It depends on what type of employment, because it could be self-employment. Do the statistics say what percentage would be self-employed? Because that would be taking care of grandchildren. Does it break it down into the type of employment?

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Into actual employment....

[Gishelle Albert]

So that would be considered employment too.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Not taking care of children on behalf of....

I suppose the better question would be, do you have any data as to what employment rates are for parents and grandparents who have been sponsored?

[Gishelle Albert]

As for having data with me right now as I sit here, no, but I have done that research and that is why I was able to summarize it in that sense.

My statement also did say that even when they are employed it would not be at the same level as other immigrants who may have the skills. If you think about it, if you cannot speak one of the official languages of the country, what would your income level be, because you don't have the basic knowledge to communicate?

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

But my question is somewhat different. For example, Dr. VanderPlaat looked at raw data, and referred to the Longitudinal Survey of Immigrants. Do you have any data to back up your—

[Gishelle Albert]

I'm not a doctor and I don't focus on the statistics. I look at the information that comes out of the data, and that's what I base my argument on.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Okay. Another concern you had was about parents or grandparents coming here, and then you said that a lot of times sponsors default on their obligations. Do you have any data as to how widespread this would be, since it is obviously a matter of concern to you?

[Gishelle Albert]

The information is on Statistics Canada's website. It's on the government's website.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

How widespread would it be?

[Gishelle Albert]

Enough that if we're on the hook for it, as taxpayers, it's too much. How do you hold—

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Okay, so what would you define as “enough”?

[Gishelle Albert]

“Enough” could be if someone agrees to a certain length of sponsorship, and they're not able to back that up, then they're defaulting. Whether it be 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, why does it then become the taxpayers' problem?

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Do you know what those numbers are? I'm asking a very straightforward question.

[Gishelle Albert]

You're asking me for specific numbers, and I believe I mentioned before that my information came from various—

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Such as?