Evidence of meeting #37 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was families.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
As a leading authority on resilience in children and young people, would you be able to comment on the value that having grandparents involved with parents in the raising of a child has on the resilience, emotional well-being, and long-term success of that child?
4:20 p.m.
Canada Research Chair in Child, Family and Community Resilience, Child and Youth Refugee Research Coalition, Dalhousie University
Absolutely. The case studies you'll hear from our colleagues in the field would say that.
Now, I just said, of course, that you want a larger matrix of individuals in the child's family, in the child's home. What grandparents do, perhaps uniquely, is in terms of culture. They convey to a child a sense of belonging. They are the ones who carry the story and the identity. If we want people not to disconnect.... Now, it's interesting that families.... I'm sure you're seeing this in your clientele. People are using Facebook and social media as a way of maintaining continuity of their identity in the absence of live flesh-and-blood people in their families. People are adapting and using technology in somewhat positive ways, but it's not as strong, especially for some vulnerable ages, and I'm going to say adolescents especially, not necessarily the younger children. Adolescents really need that sense of a grandparent present in their lives who can sometimes be there when there is a crisis happening. They are much more likely to listen to their grandparent than their parent at certain phases in their development.
I am seeing people smile at that, by the way.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
My next question is for Ms. Antonio.
A lot of people say that the sponsorship of parents and grandparents is a drain on the economy. I am an immigrant who came here 17 years ago. For the first four years, I did not work, because I had small kids, and I didn't have family support. Do you think that they are an economic drain?
4:20 p.m.
Executive Director, Ethno-Cultural Council of Calgary
No, definitely not. They will enable parents to become more economically successful.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj
Thank you.
I'd like to thank our panellists for appearing before the committee today, and for their insights.
We will now suspend for two minutes, to allow the next panel to assemble.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj
Our committee will resume.
We have as witnesses before us this afternoon, Mr. Bissett, former ambassador and former executive director, Canadian Immigration Service.
As an individual, we have Mr. Puneet Uppal.
We were also to have Ms. De Gante from the Multicultural Association of Fredericton Inc. Welcome, Ms. De Gante.
We'll begin with Mr. Bissett, for seven minutes, please.
4:25 p.m.
James Bissett Former Ambassador, Former Executive Director, Canadian Immigration Service, As an Individual
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I'm happy to have the opportunity to speak to the committee. I'm going to be as brief as I can, and get right to the point.
I think the real problem with family class is not, of course, with spouses and dependent children. It's with parents and grandparents. It's always been a very difficult and complex job to try to balance the economic with the family class and with humanitarian programs and it can also be troubling. It's more acute today because of the very large increase in immigration since the 1990s. As the immigration levels increase quite enormously, so do the number of parents who want to come and join their loved ones here.
The problem is essentially one of money. This is at the heart of the problem, and the high costs of admitting large numbers of elderly migrants. Studies have estimated that the social welfare costs, that is, OAS and the government supplementary program and other transfers, and the health costs during the lifetime of an elderly immigrant who comes here at the age of 65 and survives until 85 years old—which is the vital statistics figure—in that period of time, for each one of those elderly migrants, the cost is $300,000. That's a lot of money. That's at the heart of the problem.
The way it's been calculated is up to other people to decide, but more than one study has indicated that. That's the heart of the problem. It's a lot of money to bring in those people.
As an example, the Department of Immigration some time ago, in 2011, estimated there were about 275,000 sponsored parents and grandparents living in Canada over the age of 65, and assuming that they lived to the age of 85, their health care costs alone would total $27 billion. This did not estimate that many parents come here under the age of 65.
Another study by a private sector economist using data from the C.D. Howe Institute estimated that senior parents and grandparents receive on average $152,880 in old age security and guaranteed income supplement and other transfers if they live for that period from 65 to 85 years. That is the real problem.
Maybe another problem is the fact that now parents of any age can be sponsored. Part of the problem there is many of the parents are quite young and among the ones who arrive with them are three, four, or perhaps five siblings, who in turn can sponsor husbands and fiancées. That creates what all immigration officials don't like very much, chain migration, because the ones who are coming in do not have to meet any kind of skill, education, or other requirements.
It was for this reason that previous governments in the past, both Liberal and Conservative, put an age limit on parents and grandparents. It used to be that you couldn't bring your parents into Canada unless they had reached the age of 60 or a grandparent before the age of 65. In my view, the age limit would not have much impact today because of the great numbers.
The other issue, of course, is the 150,000 or so backlog that existed back in 2011 was the beginning of concern on the part of all governments about costs, because they found out that there were 150,000 sponsored parents and grandparents waiting to get in here who were qualified to come, and it was just a question of whether they could be processed in time. Governments since then have been finding ways and means to either slow the flow down or try to get rid of the backlog, which is not easily done.
The previous Conservative government did make a preliminary effort to try to get control of that situation by putting on a cap of 500 applications, and then trying to increase the numbers coming in from the backlog. I'm not sure it worked, but they did make an attempt at it.
The other thing the Conservatives did, which I think was very good and should certainly exist, was to introduce the idea of the super visa, so that parents and grandparents could come to visit their relatives an unlimited number of times for a period of two years and not have to get the visa renewed every time they wanted to come. That enabled a certain balance to occur, whereby people in the backlog could at least come to visit their loved ones here. It was a very good idea. Australia has already implemented it.
I don't have any solutions to this, although I have some ideas about it. One other way by which other countries such as Australia tackle this issue is to have what they call the balance of family. If you apply for your father and your mother and they are living in a country in which three or four of their sons and daughters are living, you will not be able to sponsor them to Australia. But if you are here and are trying to sponsor your parents who are on their own and are not looking after other dependants, then they're welcome to come. That has slowed down the flow of parents and grandparents to Australia, but it seems to be working.
In addition to that—I'm not sure how they do this—the Australians basically ask people to put up a bond of about 40,000 Australian dollars, if they're going to bring their parents or their grandparents.
We're not the only country dealing with this, but we are the only country bringing in such large numbers of people, and that's what has accelerated the problem and aggravated it.
Thank you.
4:35 p.m.
Former Ambassador, Former Executive Director, Canadian Immigration Service, As an Individual
Can I add a postscript to that?
The figures I gave you are pretty solid figures—they come from the department and they come from private economists—but probably the best study I could recommend for the committee is one that has been done by a colleague of mine, Martin Collacott. He has done an excellent study called “The Canadian Family Class Immigration”. I would recommend that every member of the committee have a look at it. It's really good. I have a copy here, if you want me to table it.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj
If you table it, we'll make sure it's distributed.
Thank you.
Mr. Uppal, you have seven minutes, please.
4:35 p.m.
Puneet Uppal Electrical and Control Systems Engineer, As an Individual
Hello. Thanks for considering me as a witness.
I'm personally affected by the processing times for spouses and parents. I applied for my parents seven years ago. My parents are alone in India because my brother and I both came to Canada as students. We both immigrated under the provincial nomination program. We are both engineers.
I got my citizenship last year. I applied for my wife's PR seven months ago, and what I was told is that it can take up to 18 months to get the PR processed. What I also learned is that my wife cannot apply for a visitor visa to visit me because her PR is under processing.
I can't visit my wife because I have already exhausted my vacation time. I took about three months earlier this year to visit India to get married, and now I can't take any more vacation. I can't even imagine having to be apart from my wife for a year and a half. I'm pretty sure I'll have to quit my job and move back to India temporarily.
I have listed a few recommendations in my written brief about helping us deal with these processing times. My first recommendation is to reduce this processing time to six to eight months. This is being implemented in the U.S., the U.K., New Zealand, and Australia. One thing is, if you can't bring the processing time down, to at least issue some sort of super visa to the spouse so that the couple can be united.
For me it's personally a lot of strain. I'm living far apart from my parents and from my wife. My parents are aging, and they're literally alone, because my younger brother is here with me in Canada.
My last recommendation is to reduce the processing time for parents to two years. As I said, I've been waiting seven years for them to get PR, and there is literally no end limit. It could take 15 years. I have no idea when they will get the PR.
That's it. Thank you.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj
Thank you, Mr. Uppal.
Ms. De Gante, you have seven minutes, please.
4:35 p.m.
Lisa Bamford De Gante Executive Director, Multicultural Association of Fredericton Inc.
Good afternoon. My name is Lisa Bamford De Gante. I'm the executive director of the Multicultural Association of Fredericton Incorporated.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today about the pressing issue of family reunification. I have witnessed and experienced the impact of family reunification, and the delay of it or the denial of it, on clients, colleagues, and my own family in my work with immigrant-serving organizations for almost 30 years.
Since 1974, the Multicultural Association of Fredericton has played a vital role in our small centre in our community by establishing communication and fostering understanding between the community, settled immigrants, and newcomers. MCAF accomplishes this by encouraging and promoting the concept of diversity and inclusion by providing newcomers to Canada with settlement services, language instruction, employment services, and community networking. It works overall on the creation of an inclusive and welcoming community with many partners in the community.
Through funding from IRCC, the province, the city, and countless others as well as through extensive community partnerships, the MCAF newcomer programs deliver a range of resettlement and settlement services, including language training, employment services, children and youth programming, and community connections, to facilitate the integration and full participation of immigrants in our community.
The province of New Brunswick had the honour of receiving the largest number of Syrian refugees per capita in the past year. I want to look at that in a demographic context for our province.
In 2011, for the first time, New Brunswick experienced a larger number of deaths than births. The gap at that point was only nine. But in the first quarter of 2016, the gap increased. New Brunswick experienced in the first three months of 2016 over 1,900 deaths, the highest number of deaths on record, and the least number of births, at just over 1,500. The gap was 390. In spite of this, in that same period, New Brunswick set a 70-year immigration record overall. New Brunswick grew by over 1,133, despite the larger number of deaths and births. That was the largest single gain in six years.
In Fredericton, the city in which I work specifically, we received 418 government-assisted refugees in three short months, from late December to the end of March last year. In total, we resettled 443 GARs, government-assisted refugees, in that period, and 410 of them were from Syria. This was a 527% increase over the total number in the previous year.
In March and April, MCAF was able to participate in a pilot resettlement project with an additional 236 Syrians who were to be relocated to the original resettlement sites in the province as well as to four smaller centres. It was not to deliver new resettlement services but to deliver settlement services. This was a very interesting and unique pilot. All of those families were re-destined by the end of April.
Our organization has also worked closely with sponsorship groups, who sponsored an additional 10 families in the greater Fredericton area comprising 55 individuals.
Overall, Fredericton has welcomed a record number of 573 refugees, or 114 families, since April 2015. To give you some context, the greater Fredericton area has a total population of 124,000. The impact is great on the community. I wish to emphasize not just the number of refugees, 573, but the number of families, 114, because the notion of family is central here.
The most pressing issue for the vast majority of these families is the well-being of the family they've left behind and the desire to reunite. This pressing concern will affect their ability to settle and integrate and participate in the economy of Canada.
Immigrants arriving under family sponsorship streams are arriving with pre-existing natural support systems, which can assist with their orientation to the community and to government services, finances, and emotional support.
Seeing the impact of delays in family reunification, and also the impact when family reunification happens, our organization recommends that we increase the level of family reunification, particularly in light of the smaller centres and the increase in the level of immigration, that we look at raising quotas in proportion with the increased level of immigration, and that we expedite family reunification. Many children wait over two years before being able to reunite with their parents in Canada. For family members, refugees, overseas processing may take 31 months.
We'd like to see something more like an express entry of a six- to eight-month period for family reunification. We'd also like to see a broader, more inclusive definition of family. You may consider siblings in that. We'd definitely like to see the previous age of dependants reinstated, from 18 back to 22, particularly looking at the fact that children who are in school are still dependent. We do encourage children to access post-secondary education.
We also would like to look at the minimum income requirements for sponsorship. Those requirements are set at a national level and they do not reflect the cost of living in different regions of Canada.
4:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Multicultural Association of Fredericton Inc.
We do reflect the differentiation from government-assisted refugees. Rather than having one national cookie cutter, we really need to look at the cost of living in each region of Canada.
We also know that there's higher retention for newcomers in New Brunswick who are family class.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj
Thank you, Ms. De Gante.
We'll begin with Mr. Robert-Falcon Ouellette for seven minutes.
Welcome.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I very much appreciate the opportunity to come here today.
Thank you very much to the witnesses for coming.
I want to mention that I have an indigenous poppy. Someone asked me what this was, and they didn't know it was a poppy. My wife made it. It took around 10 hours of bead work. I'm very happy that I'm wearing it today. It's not some strange flower or something.
As an indigenous person, I find it very interesting to be here to participate in an immigration debate. We've had the French come, and the British in these waves, and every time we've always looked down upon these people as being somehow not worthy of coming, as being a drain. We said that about the Irish, the Ukrainians, the Italians, the Sikhs, and the Chinese, in all these successive waves that have come to our country. I've heard some interesting facts and figures and I'd love to gain a little bit more understanding of that.
My first question is related to the 2016 immigration levels plan. It shows that the government intends to admit around 80,000 family class immigrants, of which 20,000 are to be parents and grandparents. In your view, are these targets adequate? If not, why? What are the implications of these targets with respect to family reunification, and why are families important to people? Why should we allow families in? Should we be concentrated on only the economic aspect or are there additional aspects that are important when people come to this country?
The question is for all three.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj
Perhaps we'll follow the same order of the presentations.
Mr. Bissett.
4:45 p.m.
Former Ambassador, Former Executive Director, Canadian Immigration Service, As an Individual
I think part of the problem is we're bringing in very large numbers. If you're bringing in large numbers, it's not going to be possible to process them quickly.
I lived in an age in the 1980s, when I was in charge of immigration. We had immigration officers abroad. They were usually equipped with a security officer who would do the security checking. All of the people coming were interviewed and counselled face to face by an immigrant visa officer. In the case of spouses and the case of family, grandparents and parents, they were seldom interviewed. They were simply processed very quickly. If they met the medical requirements and the sponsor met the requirements for sponsoring people, they were dealt with quickly. That was a different time. Now we're dealing with up to 300,000 people in a variety of countries around the world.
Processing has been cut, if you can call it that. Now very few of the immigrants coming here, even the ones in the so-called economic class are interviewed. The interview is skipped and the documents that the immigrant files are sent to Ottawa. A civil servant looks them over. If they look pretty good they stamp them and send them back to Dhaka or wherever and the immigrant gets on the next plane to Montreal or Toronto. They've never been seen by an immigration officer. The system has been sped up but it has lacked the kind of ability, I think, to deal with the numbers.
In my own view, the family class, parents and grandparents, should be given a priority. Bear in mind what I said about costs: it's going to cost, and the taxpayer will deeply resent it if they see parents and grandparents being brought in from other countries when their tax load is being increased and they're going to be paying. That's what the politicians have to worry about. Fortunately, I don't have to.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
As a person with a bit of ignorance on the immigration issue, although I wish I were more knowledgeable, are there currently medical exams that are conducted?
4:50 p.m.
Former Ambassador, Former Executive Director, Canadian Immigration Service, As an Individual
Yes.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Former Ambassador, Former Executive Director, Canadian Immigration Service, As an Individual
Absolutely. All immigrants have to be examined for health purposes.