Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 8th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Good morning.

I would like to welcome our witnesses. Pursuant to the motion adopted by the committee on February 23, 2016, the witnesses are here to discuss their experience with the situation facing Zimbabwean and Haitian nationals in Canada.

I would invite Mr. Cima, Mr. Vaval, and Ms. Simon to proceed with any opening comments they might have. We'll start with Mr. Cima. You have a maximum of 10 minutes, sir.

Yes?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

If I may, I would like to make a point of order, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

There are two individuals here today I would like to introduce to the committee: Mr. Serge Bouchereau, who is a representative of the action committee for persons without status; and Mrs. Oriol, who is a person without status.

They are actually not part of the witness group, but rather they travelled on their own to come and hear the committee's work. I would like to introduce them to the committee.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

We'll take a very broad interpretation of points of order on that. When witnesses or individuals travel to the committee on particular issues we always appreciate the fact that people come here, and there will be an opportunity after the committee meeting, if they would like to talk about their experiences in an informal way with committee members.

I would like to return to committee business. Mr. Cima, you have 10 minutes, please, should you wish to make a presentation.

[Jean-Fritz Cima, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Greetings to all members of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. Thank you for inviting me to testify before you today.

My name is Jean-Fritz Cima. I was born in Torbeck, Les Cayes, Haiti. I am 44 years old, am married and have six children.

I would like to start by giving you a brief summary of my experience in Haiti, and then I will tell you about my experience here, in Canada. Lastly, I will talk about my expectations and the expectations of my fellow Haitians who are out of status.

I spent my childhood and adolescence in southern Haiti. When I was 20, I went to live in Port-au-Prince, where I studied civil engineering. However, I worked mainly in business, which enabled me to meet the needs of my family fairly well until 2009.

In July 2009, I was kidnapped by bandits who demanded $25,000 U.S. for my release. My wife had to go into debt to have me freed. My savings vanished. From then on, I had only one thought in my head: to leave my country. However, I hesitated because of my children, who were minors, and the pleas of my wife, who wanted me to stay.

Just before the earthquake in 2010, which left more than 300,000 dead and many injured, my business began to improve, but unfortunately for me, thieves looted the warehouse where I had stored merchandise during the disaster. However, I had started to forget the idea of leaving the country, but with the looting of my goods during the disaster, the constant harassment of racketeer bandits threatening to kidnap me a second time or attack a member of my family, I decided to leave for good. From that point on, I took steps to come to Canada, a very safe country I was told, in Haiti.

I arrived in Quebec on August 8, 2012, and made a claim for refugee protection, which was rejected. I appealed, then withdrew the appeal to make an initial application on humanitarian and compassionate grounds, which was allowed by Quebec but refused by Canada. I am now making my second application on humanitarian and compassionate grounds, which is under way.

I currently have two jobs. I am a forklift driver, a job I trained for here, in Montreal. I also have a permit to drive taxis in Quebec. So far, my steps to obtain permanent residence have cost me a lot of money, about $16,000, and more in legal and immigration fees, not to mention the expenses for family obligations and providing for my needs here. I even had to borrow money from my boss to bury my 11-year-old son, who died of cholera last December. Fortunately, my 13-year-old son survived the illness. In September 2015, even though I wasn't in Haiti, bandits set fire to my house and my family lost everything.

In closing, my greatest wish is to obtain permanent residence to stay here, live here and bring my entire family so I can give all my children a place in the sun.

I must end my testimony by thanking the non-status action committee, which helps out-of-status individuals like me who want to live in Canada legally and who are waiting for one thing: the Canadian government's adoption of a global, collective and inclusive measure, as was the case in 1973 with Bill C-197, which launched opération mon pays.

Once again, thank you very much for inviting me to testify before your committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Mr. Cima.

It's now your turn, Ms. Simon. You have 10 minutes.

[Marie-Jocelyne Simon, President, Concertation-action des citoyens et des citoyennes d'origine haïtienne]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good morning.

We acknowledge the work the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration is doing on this important matter concerning the moratorium on deporting citizens of Zimbabwe and Haiti living in Canada. It is with great enthusiasm that we respond to the invitation to appear before this committee, and we intend to provide a brief. Mr. Vaval and I will give the presentation.

My name is Jocelyne Simon. I left Haiti in 1979. I worked for the federal government. I am currently retired, but I am very active as a volunteer in my community. I am president of a group called Concertation-action des citoyens et des citoyennes d'origine haïtienne, mainly in Rivière-des-Prairies. This organization has been around for 12 years, and its mission is to work to facilitate the true economic, social, cultural and political integration of members of the Haitian community in Montreal, specifically in the Rivière-des-Prairies area.

Mr. Vaval is the director of Équipe RDP. For the past 20 years, the mission of this organization has been to contribute to the social development of and to improve the quality of life of the population of Montreal and the surrounding area by providing recreation and social intervention programs.

Conducting a study like this shows us that that government is willing to find a fair and equitable solution to the living conditions of thousands of people affected by this moratorium. We hope that the findings of this study will mean that this first step of suspending the moratorium, as announced on December 10, 2015, will take place and will make it possible to regularize the status of those affected.

Who are the foreign nationals affected? Canada is well known and recognized for its openness. It is a country that welcomes many people who have chosen to live here. Canada also opens its doors to people who are required to leave their country or who cannot return there because of violence or instability. Therefore, in 2012, Canada established a moratorium on deporting immigrants to Zimbabwe and, in 2004, to Haiti.

Haitian nationals came in waves. The first wave of individuals arrived after the earthquake. More arrived in 2010, after the earthquake that devastated the country and left more than 300,000 people dead, as our colleague mentioned. They stayed because of the moratorium. They are concentrated mainly in Montreal, Ontario, and British Columbia.

The second wave included people who had to leave Haiti urgently after the earthquake and who were evacuated in a Canadian Armed Forces Hercules aircraft. These individuals arrived with their family, without any belongings. In the meantime, these people adjusted to life in Canada, and many of them gave birth to Canadian children.

Both groups include people of a certain age. We estimate the number of Haitian nationals between 3,500 and 4,000. They have taken the steps needed to participate in life in Canada, even though they face a number of difficulties because of their situation. The Canadian and Quebec governments and the Haitian community are taking care of them.

After the earthquake, there was a major movement in Montreal to put in place multiservice centres, among other things, and to take care of the Haitian population in Montreal in areas where there was a high concentration of members from that community. Special programs were put in place to provide support.

Lifting the moratorium gave hope to some people, while others were concerned, given the many compliance rules that are not always simple.

Today, with the moratorium lifted, these foreign nationals still have a lot of fears. Living under the moratorium has its shares of troubles, but not knowing the outcome of the steps with the lifting of the moratorium gives rise to other concerns.

Given the moratorium, people are facing tremendous difficulties, at every level, particularly children and seniors. Those difficulties include obtaining a work permit, getting access to health care services, education and so on. The following scenarios illustrate their hard reality.

I will now turn things over to Mr. Vaval.

[Pierreson Vaval, Director, Équipe Rivière-des-Prairies]

Thank you, Marie-Jocelyne.

I would like to thank the members of the committee for giving us the opportunity to speak to an issue that is important for the development of Canada's Haitian community, especially in the Montreal region of Quebec, where 90% of nationals and of that community are concentrated.

I arrived in Canada, in Quebec, when I was young, two years old. That was in 1974. In 1972, my father travelled around the world and accidentally found an interesting place, a place to live that was good for the development of his family. Today, I am happy to be a Canadian who contributes to the growth of his country, but also to the promotion of his country abroad.

We are very moved by the comments of members of our community who, we think, are the most vulnerable. In our community, the most vulnerable are those individuals who are the least equipped to successfully integrate into Canadian, Quebec society. Mr. Cima's story, a scenario that illustrates all the difficulties and challenges these people face, ensures that we have the duty to suggest solutions and try to influence the decision-makers. That is why we are before you today.

The challenge of obtaining a work permit is a priority for us. In fact, for integration to be successful here, in Canada, the economic issue comes first. I'm talking about employment, the possibility for foreign nationals to develop some economic stability in order to develop socially within our various communities, and so on.

There are many challenges. Given everything involved in obtaining and renewing a work permit, keeping a job is a challenge in itself. The permit costs $255, is valid for six months to one year and needs to be renewed. Many people in the community will mention some difficult aspects of the renewal process. For example, since they need to take action every six months or year to meet this requirement, they must ask their employer to be released. In addition, the application processing time is long. It takes four to five months to get a response, and when you do get one, the period of coverage is from the date the application was made until the end of the six-month or one-year period. Under these conditions, if someone waited for five months, there are only seven left out of 12. It's absurd. The situation for work permits means that you are constantly in an active process.

Problems also exist for access to education. The children of an individual without a work permit cannot get equal access to education. When they arrive, they have access to primary and secondary schools. However, when they go to CEGEP or university, the children of these nationals are treated as foreigners and must therefore pay the full tuition, which is $6,000 for CEGEP in Quebec, and about $10,000 for university. These are costs that we cannot take on.

Integrating these young people is also an issue. When they arrive, they can't necessarily study at high school, which means that they can't go to CEGEP either. A kind of unhealthy inactivity is created and causes frustration in these young people. So they sometimes turn to marginal behaviour. They look to the sub-culture to try to survive and find a way to meet their needs, those of their parents and their family. We certainly see these problems in our youth intervention programs, and we are trying to prevent them.

Access to health care also presents a particular situation. Foreign nationals benefit from the interim federal health program, or the IFHP, which supports them when it comes to their health care. However, even when they have a permit, not every hospital or health care institution will accept it. In the Montreal region, only one health care facility, the Santa Cabrini Hospital, accepts the permit from individuals who go there to receive treatment.

There is something inconsistent about that, and more should be done so that all health care facilities can accept these individuals, who do not live in a single area in Montreal. The Santa Cabrini Hospital is in the eastern part of the city. So people who live in the Montreal region have to travel to get there to receive treatment.

We think children and the elderly are the most vulnerable, the elderly in particular. These people left Haiti and left their community in a situation that is no longer the same now. With everything that has happened, from the earthquake to periods of political, social and economic instability, the country is changing very quickly. If these people, who are already vulnerable because of their age, are sent back, they will no longer identify with the environment they left. Their friends are dead, or they no longer own what they left behind or they believe they still own it. The environment has really changed. We would be putting them in an even more vulnerable situation. We think it is very important to pay attention to that.

Stability of the family unit is extremely important in the process of integrating into society in Quebec and Canada. Grandparents have a big role to play in integrating into society. They often try to provide direct support to the parents in their role of supporting and coaching their children. That is why sending those people back would create a vulnerable situation for both the elderly and the children growing up here.

There is something else we consider very important. Since 2004, these people have been working to integrate into Canadian society. They are trying to find work and are making constant efforts to do so. They are trying to make sure that their children attend school and receive services. If their children 18 years of age or older can't attend school, they take steps to try to get them a work permit so they can work. These people are constantly taking steps and experiencing a kind of instability.

We think the first step would be to eliminate the red tape so that these people can function in society. It will help them to work and keep their job as long as possible, and will help their children to continue to develop—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Mr. Vaval, you have 30 seconds.

[Pierreson Vaval]

Thank you very much.

Another thing we consider important is that the government continue to think about this. I know that you are in contact with people at the provincial level. Steps have been taken. The City of Montreal is putting structures in place. The community is always willing to work with the federal government to find a solution. We are there and we want to work with you.

Thank you for giving us the time to share our concerns.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Mr. Vaval.

Pursuant to the routine motion adopted by the committee on February 16, we'll now proceed to rounds of questioning.

The first round of questioning will be from Mr. Ehsassi.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I'd like to thank the three witnesses we have here today for their incredibly helpful testimony. It was quite impressive to highlight all the challenges and the hurdles and the various barriers that are faced by members of the Haitian community.

I suppose it would be best to start with Ms. Simon. I wonder if she would kindly highlight the contributions that the various members she has been in contact with have made to the social life of Montreal, and the contributions they continue to make to Canadian life in Montreal, in Toronto, and in British Columbia.

[Marie-Jocelyne Simon]

The Haitian community took action after the earthquake. We set up crisis centres. We set everything up to welcome these individuals, and we asked the community and the government for help. We gave them clothing and a little money. We found people who wanted to host those individuals who did not have family here. We tried to find them a place to stay, because some people arrived in Montreal without even having one. Our duty was to welcome them and make sure that they had a roof over their head and something to eat.

Certainly the government helped us a little, but it was mainly the community that gave a lot of money to help these people. Some community organizations provide support services still today. For example, if they need to go to the hospital or fill out a form, we are there to help them. That is how we can help them.

In Canadian society, when someone has a problem, that person can talk to a psychologist. For Haitians arriving here, we are the ones who take on that role. They come to us crying and tell us their troubles. All we can tell them is that we will work with the government and the various authorities to see what will be set up. When they learned that we were coming here, it was a great ray of hope for them. They think that this will finally end, but the work will not be done at all, because they will still need support in their integration process.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you for that, and thank you for the incredible work you continue to do by helping nationals of Haiti in Montreal.

There was a segment of your testimony where you stated that many members of this community were “living with a lot of fear”. I wonder if you would kindly expand on that, the types of fears that in your experience have proven to pose quite a challenge to members in—

[Marie-Jocelyne Simon]

What these people who are in Canada fear is being sent back home. We heard from Mr. Cima, who explained the atmosphere in Haiti. They wonder what might happen to them if they return to Haiti. After they arrived here, there was the earthquake in Haiti that killed over 300,000 people. Often, their family has been killed and they have no assets. So what will they do if they return to their country? If they return to Haiti after a few years, they will be considered worse than strangers. People will look at them and wonder, “But where did they come from?” So there is no hope at all for their return to Haiti.

There is so much red tape for them that they are nearly discouraged. They often come and see us. What do we tell them? We tell them to be brave, to continue working, even if sometimes they lose their job when their permit expires. We encourage them. We tell them that they need to fill out the form, wait a little and find something else.

They are really afraid of returning to Haiti and fear retaliation, kidnapping and illness. There have been cases of endemic diseases, like chikungunya and cholera, which have taken place several times. There are always hurricanes. In fact, something is always hitting Haiti.

So that is what they fear.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you. Perhaps I could also have one more question.

Mr. Vaval, given the fact that you spoke to the issue of instability faced by various members of the Haitian community in Montreal, I was wondering, given that backdrop, if you could kindly inform us what in your opinion has been a barrier to certain members of the community coming forward to apply for permanent residence. We did hear from government officials last week, and we're concerned that there is a certain percentage of Haitians who have not come forward to apply for permanent residence. What could the challenge be?

[Pierreson Vaval]

It's difficult to get all the information you need in the permanent residence application process. People are often unable to apply because the situation in Haiti has changed. The documents and people who could testify are no longer there. The more time passes, the more complicated the situation becomes, so that it is more and more difficult for these people to meet the requirements.

It was noted that these requirements do not change and that they became a constant barrier because people do not have the tools or information they need to complete the forms and apply properly. People are hopeful and expect the forms or requirements will change, or that stakeholders in the Haitian community will increase the government's awareness about the need to adapt the requirements to the situation in Haiti.

There is still a false impression that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Mr. Vaval. Mr. Ehsassi's time is up.

Mr. Saroya, you have seven minutes.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for all coming in. If you look around here, we're all immigrants. We all feel for you, especially Mr. Cima...kidnapped twice and the family is dead. We all feel for you. A quick thing, why was your case rejected twice? What was the reason given for rejecting your case? Listening to the witnesses the last time there is a 93% approval rate for the Haitians who applied for this. Was there any special reason that your case was rejected?

[Jean-Fritz Cima]

Actually, my refugee protection claim was rejected. I was told that it was because of my testimony, which they did not believe. As for my application on humanitarian and compassionate grounds, I was told that I had not signed the affidavit in certain spots, but it was not my problem if my representative had not given it to me to sign. I did not know what I had to sign. That is the first thing.

Then, I didn't know what my representative had written because he hadn't even had me read all of what he wrote. He decided to write what he wanted and then sent it.

I just learned why my application was refused. When it was refused despite my problems and everything I was facing there, I wondered why. I asked my representative to request the reasons so that I could know why my application had been refused. He told me that it wasn't possible. I called him several times, and he finally asked.

I finally understood what had happened. The testimony contradicted the one I had given at the embassy to enter the country. The representative said that I had nothing in Haiti, and several other things, including that my family lived in makeshift tents. But that wasn't true; my family lived in a house. That is why my application was refused.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Is there anybody else you know whose application was rejected?

[Jean-Fritz Cima]

Yes, I've heard of other people. There are others I know. There's Ms. Fatima, who is there with us, and her case is different from mine, but her application was refused, too. Other Haitians have this same problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Mr. Tilson.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you very much for coming to tell us your stories.

Mr. Cima has indicated that he wants Parliament to have a more inclusive approach in dealing with these issues. Mr. Vaval said he wants to eliminate administrative hurdles.

My question is to you, Mr. Vaval, on that issue. You've all described, Ms. Simon as well, some of the problems that people from Haiti have had in coming to this country. Can you give specifics on how the government can improve the system? We're talking about making application for permanent residency and about a number of things. All of you have described all the roadblocks that you come upon.

Mr. Vaval, can you advise the committee as to how the system could be improved?

[Pierreson Vaval]

Thank you for the question.

I think the process could be improved in various ways.

For example, in terms of employment, you could make sure that all the red tape is eliminated so that people are more active and constructive in Canada, rather than constantly being in the process of trying to obtain permits if they want to contribute to the country.

That costs businesses money. They have to make sacrifices. After a certain amount of time, they aren't interested anymore, and after that, the individuals are no longer productive. If people could have permits valid for a longer period of time, for a year and a half or two years, for example, instead of six months, that would give them time to work.

Health care permits are issued to each family member individually, and the validity period is different for each. So people have to take different steps for the entire family. A family permit could be issued that would be valid longer.

There is one very important aspect. I am referring to these 4,000 people with respect and fairness. In fact, since 2004, these people have worked and done everything they can. They continue to be involved and engaged. Out of respect for the Haitian community that Canada and Quebec have been growing since the early 1950s and 1960s and that is involved in its development, something needs to be done to regularize the situation of these people. In fact, the entire world witnessed what happened in Haiti. People around the world came—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Mr. Vaval.

Ms. Kwan, you have seven minutes.