Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 24th, 2016

[Robert Orr]

Absolutely.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Is that irrespective of country of origin?

[Robert Orr]

That's correct.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I want to get into this important topic. You mentioned that more and more you're using new technology online and so on, and the express entry system would be one of them.

Something has been brought to my attention with respect to the express entry system. People are contacting me saying that they've logged into their profile to update their Canadian education records to get the additional points since the new changes to the express entry, but many are having problems trying to get the updated information transmitted. Hence, the updated but not submitted message appears on their profile. They have contacted IRCC to try and get a response, and they're just stuck in limbo. I'm getting a whole host of emails from people with this problem.

Can you advise? Is IRCC looking into this to fix this problem?

[Robert Orr]

I became aware of it this afternoon, in fact, just before I walked over.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes, I posted it on Twitter to the minister.

[Robert Orr]

I know our IT people are very much looking into it. I do not know what the situation is, so I can't give you any further information. However, I assure you when there's any situation like that, we take it very seriously and act as quickly as we can.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Subsequent to the meeting, can you be in direct contact with my office on how this problem is being fixed? Some people's applications are pending. They're obviously very interested about it, because it has huge implications for them. I would appreciate it if I could get your assistance in the office, too.

[Robert Orr]

For sure.

Mr. Chair, there will be advisories on the website as well about what is available. If there are issues, we let people know, and take that into consideration when we're considering applications.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Related to this there is another technical issue. It's been brought to my attention there's conflicting information on the website.

I have a situation where a constituent has made an application. In one part of the government's official website, it says that a criminal record check or a police record is only required if she's been outside of the country, and in her instance the United States, for six months consecutively. In another part of the government's website, it indicates no consecutive requirement. When she made the application, she did not submit her police record check, because she did not think that she required it because she was not out of the country for more than six months consecutively. Since then, the application has been processed and has been rejected. She was not notified that she was missing a document, and so she's now had her application turned down. I have written a letter to the minister and brought it to his attention.

I'm appealing to the government and the minister to allow for her application to stand, given there was conflicting information on the government's website. At the time when she brought it to my attention, I went on the government website myself and looked, and found the two conflicting pieces of information related to that.

That's not particularly helpful with applicants. I would like to have a response on that issue.

Related to situations like that, where you have wrong information provided by the government on the government's official website, what happens to those applications, and where do people turn to get help?

Thank you.

[Robert Orr]

Certainly we make every effort to try to avoid that situation. It's a very complicated, very large website. Clearly, if there is an issue we need to address on that particular point, we will. If that is the issue, I don't think we are going to be penalizing any applicants because of our mistake, and that would very much be taken into consideration. I cannot speak about a specific case, obviously.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes. I've written a letter to the minister about that specific case. I'd be happy to pass it along to you as well to take a look at. I think you're right—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

You have 20 seconds.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

—that in those situations it's blatantly unfair for the applicant, given that it's not their fault. The individual immediately made another application, but because it's a points system, there's no telling whether or not she'll even get up in the line, so the anxiety she's experiencing is understandable.

I appreciate your effort with respect to that, and I'll follow up and send that letter to you directly as well.

[Robert Orr]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

Ms. Dzerowicz, you're next.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you so much for your presentation, for coming back. I appreciate it.

One of the many things we bandied about in committee, asking questions of the various people who came to present to us, was we focused a little on the 10,000 number. We asked if 10,000 is the right number, or is 20,000 the right number, or what would the right number be?

It made me think a little about the factors that lead to the decision on the family class number. Is it that we look at the capacity of organizations within Canada, the number of express entry people we allow in, and so consequently will a percentage of that be family class? Can you help me understand the factors that lead us to that particular number?

[Robert Orr]

Largely this goes back to how we assign levels for the given year, and therefore as the minister presents the levels for the coming year, the global number each fall. Within that there are also numbers for the various categories, and so it's always a balancing act, quite frankly, among the various categories to try to get the right number.

Essentially, that's how it comes about. There's no scientific formula to it. It's trying to balance the needs of the country and the emphasis the government wants to place on a particular category.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

The reason I'm a little stuck on it, and your presentation today alludes to it as well, is we see—and we've heard this many times—that those who come through express entry settle much more quickly if they have their families with them. They contribute to the economy more quickly.

I kept thinking that if we're increasing our express entry, we might also want to increase the space for our family class. Are any of those types of discussions going on? I'm trying to get a handle on family reunification and the numbers.

[Robert Orr]

There are a couple of points there. First of all, as we've seen the levels go up, we've certainly seen the numbers for family class go up significantly as well. We're probably at the highest number for family class that we've been at for a very long time.

It might also be worth thinking that 55% of those who come in through the economic program are spouses and dependent children.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

That's helpful.

[Robert Orr]

It's a very significant portion: 93,000 out of 170,000 were spouses and dependent children, but counted under the economic category.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thank you. That's helpful.

The other thing that consumed me a little was data. There's so much different data out there, so I would love to get a sense about what data we collect. Do we collect data on the average age of the parents and grandparents who come? How many of them work? How many are retired? How many use our health care system? After a certain period of time, how many people go on social assistance? What are the different cultures?

I feel it's so hard to make decisions when you're not basing them on evidence and data.

[Robert Orr]

A huge amount of work is done to look at the evidence of who has come to Canada. We have a very robust research and evaluation department that does a great deal of work in this area. They would be able to respond to a lot of those questions, such as how many are seeking social assistance. A great deal of rich data has been brought together through that group.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I'd love to get even a high-level list of the data we collect. The reason I ask is, again, when I get back to the numbers of 10,000 or 20,000, I often think, if we can prove there's not a huge economic impact or there's not a huge impact on a lot of our institutions, I often wonder why we couldn't argue that we might want a few more parents and grandparents, particularly since we believe they might contribute to settling their families more quickly, providing support around child care, that kind of thing.

It's hard, in the absence of data, to make some intelligent recommendations, so I'd be grateful if you could forward that to us. I don't need every piece of data, but if you could give us the high-level bits of data that we do collect, that would be really helpful.