Evidence of meeting #59 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consultant.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Regulated Canadian Immigration Consultant, As an Individual
No, I disagree.
A lawyer who has just finished an internship won't represent a client at the Supreme Court. It's the same thing for me. I don't have much experience in the field, so I won't represent a client before the Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada. Lawyers don't have levels of practice, and I don't think we should have them. We should trust our good judgment. We also have a code of ethics to follow.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I wish everybody would do that but so far, not so good.
Would you argue that 320 hours of online training, six months, is sufficient then?
5:05 p.m.
Regulated Canadian Immigration Consultant, As an Individual
I didn't take that training. I completed 500 hours of training after obtaining my bachelor's degree in international relations.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
5:05 p.m.
Regulated Canadian Immigration Consultant, As an Individual
5:05 p.m.
NDP
5:05 p.m.
Regulated Canadian Immigration Consultant, As an Individual
I think IRCC already has plans to increase the number of hours of immigration consultant training. Currently, the training takes 500 hours. Since I took other legal training, I think I have the skills needed to do my job.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
The presenter before us indicated that was 320 hours of online training. But in any event, I guess it would be good to do some work around finding the facts around the case of competency and training, and then we can go from there.
Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thanks to both the witnesses for coming today.
One of the biggest concerns I have heard all throughout this study is about the unregulated ghost consultants working here in Canada, and both of you have also raised this issue. They don't fall under the purview of the ICCRC. We heard earlier in our study, when the CBSA representatives were here, that they only have the resources to go after the most egregious offenders, so we have this wide open door for those ghost consultants.
It seems to me that there are few options on the table, having heard from all the witnesses on this study. I would like to get thoughts from both of you on that. Should we give the ICCRC more authority to allow them to go after non-registered consultants, given what we have heard about how they are functioning? I'm skeptical of that, but can it be reformed and improved?
The second thing is whether we replace this self-regulation model with a government regulator?
The third thing is that the Canadian Bar Association recommended restricting the field only to immigration lawyers registered with the law society. What do you think of these options and do you have any other solutions?
Perhaps I can start with Mr. Kewley and then go to Ms. Fortin about all these questions.
5:05 p.m.
Retired Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
I definitely think that giving the tools, for example, some powers through statutes or other means so the investigators can go out and do a job, will make a big difference. I believe from my experience, and I'm an investigator at ICCRC, we do a tremendous job. I think that we are covering it with respect to regulated members. We're doing very well. I think that based on that we should keep the regulator, should expand on it, and give more powers to go.... I don't think there would be an abuse of powers if you get the right people. If, for example, you have trained ex-RCMP or police officers in there, who have spent their whole lives in investigations and know how to do them, then certainly going after ghost consultants.... It's not like a murder case. It's not the most difficult thing to do, but you need the authority to do it.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
Are you recommending that we give more responsibility for the unregistered, also, to the ICCRC?
5:05 p.m.
Retired Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
Definitely. I think the problem is that we see all the solving and good work and showing of results on regulated consultants' complaints and so on, yet back before there was a regulator, and to today, there's such a backlog of these ghost consultants that we'll never.... What happened to the people back in 2001 who made complaints and never heard from anybody?
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
You think this model of self-regulation is fine and we should give more power to the....?
5:05 p.m.
Retired Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
I think that you have to understand it's a unique situation when you're talking about immigration, and I think it's a unique situation when you're talking about how they deal with clients and the different processes.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
I'd like to go to Ms. Fortin and get her opinion, if I can.
Ms. Fortin, what model do you think...?
5:05 p.m.
Regulated Canadian Immigration Consultant, As an Individual
My opinion is about the same. We need to choose a model, a legal status, that would help the ICCRC support the fight against unauthorized representatives. We need to give more power to regulatory bodies. We need to stop using the term “ghost consultant”.
In my presentation, I showed that, in many countries, ghost consultants aren't unknown individuals. The situation also exists here, in Canada. I think certain people are already contravening section 91 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.
We can start by solving this problem. We can then create a solid and qualified team composed of people from the Canada Border Services Agency and the ICCRC, for example, who would have the necessary powers. It would then be possible to fight against unauthorized representatives.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
Thank you.
My next question is about the fees being charged by the immigration consultants, with a wide variance and often a lack of transparency in the relationship between the fees charged and the services provided. Would it make sense to explore a fee structure or a fee range for registered immigration consultants doing specific, defined services?
5:10 p.m.
Retired Royal Canadian Mounted Police, As an Individual
That's out of my realm or scope to comment on. I'm not involved in that at all.
5:10 p.m.
Regulated Canadian Immigration Consultant, As an Individual
I think it would involve spending energy on something that isn't essential. When people use a service, they must be diligent and consider one, two or three options. When one consultant charges too much, it's always possible to select another consultant.
On that note, I have a suggestion. The IRCC site has a registry of settlement agencies. I think the site should also have a public registry of immigration consultants.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
What about the variance in the fees that is happening right now? We have heard that there is a big variance in the fees that the different immigration consultants are charging.
5:10 p.m.
Regulated Canadian Immigration Consultant, As an Individual
There are significant variances. I think it's a matter of supply and demand. One consultant may need more resources than another. Consultants are allowed to increase their prices. It doesn't matter. Clients can access the registry on the IRCC site, and they can consider other options if they think a fee is too high. One person may charge $20,000 for an application, but clients still have other possibilities.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON
Do you have any suggestions about reducing the activities of the unregistered foreign consultants? Should we enforce something where they should be registered with the Canadian immigration consultants?
