Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2017

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

As I previously stated, I actually don't know how that projection was arrived at. What I can say is that the way in which we project our future backlog or workload issues is around scenario building. We essentially project the number of claims and we divide it by, say, 24,000 claims that we can finalize per year, and that will give you the wait time for how long it will take—

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Is the number this big, about $3 billion or so? It's a huge number.

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

I have no idea where that figure comes from in terms of dollars.

Do you know where that came from, because it must have been based on calculus that was done somewhere other than the IRB?

[André Baril, Director, Asylum Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Maybe I can answer that question.

It's calculus, indeed, in terms of processing capacity versus intake and how long the backlog will stay in the state of not being processed.

When we look at cost, there's a federal processing cost but there are also provincial services costs—provinces provide social assistance, education, and housing—and we at the federal level provide the interim federal health program. The longer an asylum claimant stays in the system, the longer the federal and provincial costs last.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Are you satisfied with the government's plan to whittle down the current backlog? What is it doing? What else can we do to bring the backlog down?

[Michael MacDonald]

The IRB backlog or....?

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Yes.

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

For the IRB backlog, we're doing several things. One is that we have a plan of action in place, which is intended to really maximize our ability to deal with the backlog in the most efficient way possible, including—and Mike referred to advances in technology—the way in which we could leverage technology to support our members.

At the end of the day, though, there will remain a wait time, because it is a mathematical calculation.

[Michael MacDonald]

In terms of the backlog that IRCC has, we only have one backlog and that is the number of decisions to be made on eligibility in Lacolle. There is no backlog. It doesn't exist for the rest of Canada, and we are very happy with the way we're working through that, the thousands of decisions we've made since August 1.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

This year is going to be the highest number since 2000. We were expecting about 40,000 refugees coming through. How much will the cost climb up per claimant, because if the volume is so big, how much more?

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

The fact is that we have a finite number of claims we can handle a year. We can handle about 24,000 a year. The point is that there's only added cost if you add more resources to be able to handle more claims than that.

The cost for an RPD claim is about $2,600 per claim, and that's without an appeal. When you add more claims, you either add more time or you add more money. As I said, it's a very mathematical calculus. The claims need to be dealt with. They need hearings. They need to have the attention of a member, so you either need more members or you need more time.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

What are the demographics of the asylum seekers coming to Canada? Are there children, schoolkids? What is the timeline of these children to be able to access education, if at all? How many people are coming? How many are kids, schoolchildren, men, and women?

[Michael MacDonald]

Thank you, Chair.

Again, generally speaking, you see roughly around 60% of the demographic overall being males. You see a number of children, usually around 20% or so. It depends on nationality and where they're coming from.

We see, obviously, a lot of family units. In terms of the males, they're anywhere from around 20 to 40 years of age.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I'll leave it there.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Mr. Dubourg.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to say hello to all the witnesses who are here. I thank them for coming to discuss this issue.

Mr. MacDonald, my first question is for you and it follows up on the one that was just put to you. You said that many of the people who arrived this summer were children, for a family reunification. I know that there were also pregnant women. The health program for refugee claimants has been restored. Can you tell us what challenges you have faced in terms of those refugee claimants' health?

[Michael MacDonald]

I will answer in English to be more specific.

This is an important issue. In fact, overall the health of the asylum claimants very much drove how we responded operationally. We wanted to ensure that Canada's border, in being well managed and with such high numbers, did not have any health concerns.

The reality is we're dealing with people and people's lives. We had pregnant women showing up. We had actual births at the port of entry during this period of time in the high volumes. We had children who needed medical attention, and so on.

Not unlike other refugee flows, grosso modo the health of the overall Lacolle movement was relatively good, since the majority of the people had been in the United States for a while. Their health was actually quite good overall. That said, we were prepared for any health-type issues, as we are in the IRCC offices, because we have contact with people daily and things happen in life.

Again, importantly, the minister made a decision—I believe it was August 24—to issue the interim federal health certificate before eligibility decision for the Lacolle individuals, to ensure that anyone who had a health need could in fact reach and get that interim federal health coverage right away.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Still on the subject of borders, we heard in the media that people were calling for an official port of entry—for example, at Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle. Given the length of the border, can you tell us what dangers refugee claimants would face if the decision was made to set up official ports of entry all along the border? Would that be in line with our Canadian values?

[Paul MacKinnon]

I'd like to say a few words. Mr. Cloutier spoke about this at our meeting last week. Certainly there are lots of conversations going on about different responses that are possible. I think what you're referring to is the concept of pop-up, where suddenly you make a new port of entry so that the STCA could apply.

It's fair to say, there are different views on that. Certainly, by applying the STCA, then potentially if folks did not meet an exception, you could send them back, thereby decreasing pressure on the system.

If the RCMP were here talking about this, they would have some concerns about displacement, that you just push people further down the border, and how do you manage that? There are pros and cons to that concept, and it's certainly one that's being discussed. I will leave it there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

You have only one minute left.

[Emmanuel Dubourg, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. MacKinnon, you said earlier that the IRB was under review.

Could you tell us what the purpose of that review is and when it began?

[Paul MacKinnon]

Absolutely.

In the context of the budget last year, our minister was asked to conduct an independent review. The minister has engaged with Mr. Neil Yeates, who perhaps some of you met. He was the former deputy minister of our department.

In what the review is looking at, really three things are within the scope. There's how the efficiency of the asylum system can be improved, so an interest of efficiencies. Then there's what elements of the IRB's current structure could change in order to optimize productivity and efficiency, and whether that review should look at some type of different governance and accountability framework.

Basically, it's looking at efficiencies within the IRB but also within that broader asylum system, so I think it is a really important part of what we're discussing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Mr. MacKinnon.

Mr. Maguire, you have almost six minutes.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thanks to the panel this morning as well.

I have just a couple of quick questions in regard to forms. Are all requirements and steps currently laid out for the proceeding of refugees' claims being completely followed?

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

In the referral process or...?