Evidence of meeting #72 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was irb.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Yes, just in the basic form that you fill out once you cross the border. Are they being completely followed?
Director General, Operations Sector, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes, they are. In fact filling out the necessary forms is something that we've been reaching out to the Canadian Bar Association on, to send to all their members, which they have, as well as all the immigration consultants and the national organizations that send out to that membership. We're also informing, actually, the asylum seekers themselves, in particular in Lacolle, which forms they need to fill out and then encouraging them to come into our dedicated service desk that I talked about last week to help them fill out forms.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
So each person, each refugee, who comes across has to fill that form out.
Director General, Operations Sector, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes. The forms are required, sir.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
It's my understanding that these basis of claim forms ask for such pertinent information as claiming refugee status, their citizenship status, their family members, previous protection claims and visa applications. Is that correct as well?
Deputy Chairperson, Refugee Protection Division, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
The basis of claim form is the narrative that describes the journey of each individual claimant so that it grabs not only the tombstone data of information, like family members, etc., but also, literally, the facts on which the claim is being based, so that when a member is looking at the case, that forms a part of the record.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
I would certainly agree. I think that most of the other information is vitally important to the IRBC to determine if the claim is valid. Would you agree with that? All of that information is gathered for that reason, is it not?
Deputy Chairperson, Refugee Protection Division, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
Yes. It's not the only thing that is looked at by a member, but it certainly is one of the very important pieces of evidence that is looked at because it is a combination of fact and law that will influence the adjudication.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
It's come to my attention—I'm kind of concerned I've heard others—that the refugee claimants filing the claims in Quebec are no longer required to provide one bit of information on some specific questions as to why they are even claiming refugee status and in which country they hold citizenship.
According to the website, due to the challenges of making sure the basic basis of claim form is done in time as set out in the legislation, the IRB deleted the questions in order for the form to be completed, to be considered complete.
Deputy Chairperson, Refugee Protection Division, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
No.
Please, Mr. Chair, if I may, I would just like to correct that impression for the record.
The practice notice you're referring to, which is on our website, is in direct response to the fact that the community of consultants and counsel in the eastern region came to us and explained that the time frames that are required for the submission of the basis of claim were completely impossible for them to meet because the demand for their services was so incredibly high.
As a result of that, in keeping with the legislation, we were able to require that claimants actually submit what is the skeleton of the basis of claim form as a holding place for the file. This is the “tombstone data” that somebody can fill out without access to counsel and without a profound understanding of the actual system. Then, before the hearing, we require a full basis of claim to be submitted with all of the elements filled out in order for the claim to proceed.
None of the substance of that basis of claim form is being given up at all. It is required. That practice notice basically allows for a two-step process to submit that claim. Remember that the IRB is focused on equal access to justice, and the principles of natural justice do include, primarily, the right to be heard and the right to make a full case.
In respect of that, as a tribunal we felt it was required in this time of high demand to allow the eastern region to do it slightly differently than other regions. This is, as the practice notice says, just a temporary measure, because the law is pretty clear that if you make a claim at a port of entry, you have 15 days to get the basis of claim form to the IRB. If you make an inland claim, you are expected to deliver the basis of claim form at the time of your claim being made.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Your own website was where I got the basis of these questions. In regard to the time constraints you're facing, it's strange that we would allow someone to come into Canada without their even saying why.
The IRB website shows that they don't have to fill out sections 2 to 7 in the application form. Section 2 is titled, “Why You Are Claiming Refugee Protection”. I think that before you even get to the second stage, that would be something that should be addressed on this paper, and it doesn't seem to be necessary.
“Did you ask any authorities such as the police, or any other organization, in your country to protect or assist you?” You can go right through the whole thing. “Give any other details that you think are important for your claim for refugee protection.” They also ask if you have children who are less than 18 years old. These are questions that aren't even being asked. “List each country of which you are or have been a citizen.”
They're not asked to fill that out. I just wonder why.
Deputy Chairperson, Refugee Protection Division, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada
If I could just add a clarification, the basis of claim form is for the IRB, so it does have to be filled out long before we actually take it to hearing. There are a number of other forms that get filled out for eligibility determination, which is then done by CBSA and IRCC. Those questions determine whether or not you are eligible to even make an application to the IRB for consideration for a hearing.
I would like to emphasize that the basis of claim form is a substantial undertaking to fill out. It is very important that it be filled out properly and that people understand how to fill it out, which is why it does require the assistance of counsel. What we have done is only to make it a two-step submission. We are not sacrificing any of the information in there. You are absolutely right. It is essential to the determination of whether or not somebody meets the criteria for being considered a convention refugee by international law.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Thank you.
This question is to IRCC.
How many work permits have been issued to foreign national claimants who arrived at irregular points of entry this year?
Director General, Operations Sector, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
The data I have is not quite broken down like that, but I will give you some data that is very helpful nonetheless. Prior to August 24, which was when the minister made the decision to issue work permits, we had issued 5,913 of those permits. Since August 24, we have issued 3,902. Further along, I think a very important point, which again references what I mentioned last week, is that we committed to process work permits, post-August 24, in under 30 days. Our average processing time is 13 days.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Can you describe how many or what percentage of refugee claimants are finding gainful employment? Are you tracking that? Are you able to track that with this particular cohort versus the other refugees who come through ports of entry?
Director General, Operations Sector, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
No, we don't track finding gainful employment. They're open work permits, so people can obviously find employment and then move to other employment. The natural course of people in their settlement process is finding employment and going forward.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
I can rephrase that. How many are you finding who are getting employment versus going on social assistance? That's probably what I'm trying to get at.
Director General, Operations Sector, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Unfortunately, our department does not track that level of detail more or less at the municipal level, people finding employment in their home communities.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Do you know how many are on social assistance? They would not be under the GAR rules where they are getting federal assistance. They would only get provincial assistance if they applied.
Director General, Operations Sector, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
There are two parts to my response.
First, you are correct in your statement that the government-assisted refugee overseas selection has nothing to do with this and the work permits that are processed. We do know for the Lacolle movement that the Government of Quebec is very quickly moving to help people get their social assistance cheques while many of them are still in the interim lodging sites. If you don't have a work permit, one would assume in the Lacolle movement you're on social assistance and vice versa.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
IRCC is responsible for the review of the safe third country agreement. I believe on September 28 of this year an IRCC official stated that IRCC had reviewed the safe country agreement after White House executive orders had restricted travel for individuals of certain nationalities at the start of 2017.
What were the findings of that review?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Yes, we review the situation in the U.S. vis-à-vis the safe third on a regular basis. We have done that just within the past few months, and when we look at their human rights record, whether or not they're still a signatory to the UN convention and the convention against torture, whether the U.S. has an agreement on safe third, as they do with us. We find that their refugee determination system is fair and credible and does not affect the safe third country agreement that we have with them.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Have any particular considerations come to light since that review?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Outside formal reviews, we continue to monitor what happens in the U.S. We look at things like executive orders. Mr. MacDonald spoke about the fact that we regularly have discussions, have meetings with our colleagues in the U.S. We talk to NGOs, to the UNHCR. We take very seriously not just the formal review but the continuing monitoring. At its very foundation, safe third is about ensuring that asylum seekers have access to a refugee determination system in either country.
As we look at those formal reviews and monitoring, we still feel that if they claimed asylum in the U.S., they would have access to a fair system.
