Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 20th, 2017

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

I have a very brief comment for Ms. Schweitzer. Welcome.

Both my wife and I are Parkdale alumni, and thank you for your advocacy over the last four decades.

With respect to your comments relating to the legality of this provision, it still hasn't gone to the Supreme Court for adjudication, if I recall.

[Toni Schweitzer]

It hasn't. Whether or not this provision is constitutionally sound has not gone before the Supreme Court of Canada.

The issue that went before the Supreme Court of Canada, which was in the Hilewitz decision, had to do with whether or not people were having what could be considered individualized assessments, and it lead to this process that both Ms. Smith and Mr. Battista have talked about, the mitigation plans.

The court did not directly address the issue of the constitutionality.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

With respect to the mitigation plan, what other options are available other than repealing this particular provision?

How do you ensure that those cases are adjudicated in a manner that takes into account the reality that currently exists with excessive demand? How do you do that without repealing that particular provision?

[Toni Schweitzer]

I don't have any suggestions, actually.

I think that the law discriminates, and the numbers that have been provided as a justification are arbitrary and inaccurate. It appears even that senior officials are not aware of some of the things that are being done by decision-makers. That's a situation that is unacceptable.

I don't know what else I could say to that. I can say that the system as it stands is unacceptable and shouldn't continue.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Whalen.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you very much.

Thank you all for coming tonight. I'm not sure if you've been listening to some of the previous testimony that we've had, but there have been a lot of misgivings from all of us here about excessive demand and why we are quantifying individuals in this way. We don't do it in any other aspect of our lives. I just want to be clear with each of you about exactly what the ask is, or what the recommendation is regarding repeal.

I want to confirm that you're not asking us to repeal paragraphs 38(1)(a) and 38(1)(b) with regard to dangers to public health and public safety. It's just paragraph 38(1)(c), which is with respect to excessive demand—or if you are asking for repeal of all, please provide some explanation. Maybe we could just run down the table starting with Mr. Tomlinson.

[Maurice Tomlinson]

Paragraph 38(1)(c) is what we wish to see repealed. Excessive—

[Toni Schweitzer]

I may be speaking out of turn, but I think he probably can speak for all of us.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

That's wonderful.

In previous meetings, we talked about the prices. Whatever the prices are, when you take all of the costs associated with Canadian health care into account, it's a giant insurance scheme. Some people are healthy and some are not. We try to get by as best we can. We have immigrants who are coming into our country. Some are healthy and some are not. They're human beings. I'm not sure what else to say other than that.

Thank you very much for your testimony today.

That's the end of my question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

All right.

Did you want to ask another question, Ms. Kwan?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

If I may, Mr. Chair, I will just put on the record that, at my office, I have received over a thousand letters or emails regarding this issue, calling for the government to repeal the excessive demand provision. I want to get this on record, and I would be happy to give a sample of those emails to the clerk so that we can register this. I suppose I could print out a thousand copies for you, but maybe—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I would sooner not.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

—I'll just do it that way.

I want that on the record, if I may.

Thank you.

[Maurice Tomlinson]

If I may, Chair, I would also like to say on the record that Canada is behind nearly a dozen countries that have no excessive demand provision. These are countries that, as was repeatedly said, we are competing with for talent. Most of Scandinavia, our friends to the south, the U.K., Ireland, and many other countries have no such provision, and they seem to be getting on quite fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

We'll get information on that, I'm sure.

We're going to end this part of the meeting and take a brief moment to show our witnesses out. It's not an in camera meeting, but we have some business we need to do following this. I would like to resume as quickly as possible once we've done that.

Thank you, witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

We're going to call the meeting back to order.

Just before we get into the business portion of the meeting, I'll note that there was a request from Ms. Kwan for a copy of a 2004 baseline study upon which the rates were set and then increased through inflation and experience over the time. I think it would be very good for our committee to have it before the minister is here; however, it is available in English only, and it is about 50 pages.

I'm going to seek unanimous consent to have it before the committee, knowing that we would have French translation immediately following as soon as it's available—just to have that available for people to understand. I am going to seek unanimous consent on that.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

We recognize this as an exception and that all the documents will be bilingual, and it will come hopefully as quickly as possible. We're doing a compressed study, so I think it is an exception.

Mr. Anandasangaree.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Is this the one and only time for this exception?

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Yes, the exception is noted by that.

We're going to continue our discussion.

At the end of the last meeting, Ms. Rempel presented a motion. I can't tell from the blues who actually had the floor at the end of the meeting, so I'm going to turn it to Ms. Rempel.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

As a point of order, Mr. Chair, is this component of the meeting being televised?

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Yes, we're continuing.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

My understanding is that right now it's not being televised on ParlVU. It said that the meeting was suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

We're not in camera. We're continuing as normal, but we also have people who may need to leave. I don't know.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Erica Pereira]

We're on.