Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 30th, 2017

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Could any of you on video comment on this ironic situation that it seems the more immigrants and refugees we bring in, the less budget we assign to settlement?

[Shauna Labman]

I can comment.

I always get quite nervous in conversations about integration and settlement because of my desire to see refugee protection focus on protection. The danger in these conversations about services and integration and how much money is required to settle refugees successfully always risks a consequence of fewer numbers coming in.

Canada, to date, has been very generous and very great. I agree with the previous speaker that we have a model that is above and beyond the sink or swim model you would see in the United States or life vest models you'd see elsewhere. We do give a wholehearted level of support that, as we're seeing, is still inadequate.

Yet the balance has to be we don't want to be measuring which refugees we select for resettlement based on how cost-effectively we can resettle them. There's a dangerous risk of focus away from protection. This is where the Canadian public is so amazing in volunteering and providing. I think one of the things you see with Operation Ezra in Winnipeg is they're doing language programming for their sponsored refugees and government-assisted refugees are now invited in as well and benefiting from it, so there's supplemental support. I would like to see more articulation and organization in that public support for government-protected refugees.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

You have another minute.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Okay.

For the last minute, do any one of you want to comment on the Yazidi situation and the fact that 65 million people globally are forceably displaced? I wonder if you could comment on the NDP's hope that any help for the Yazidis would be a measure above and beyond Canada's normal intake of refugees.

[Lola Bendana]

I want to share that some of the settlement organizations, specifically in Toronto, have adopted some strategies to train some of the refugees as interpreters. One of the challenges is that they have a hard time finishing the training because there has to be a bridge to teach them the language skills in English, bring their education level a little over to be able to function in that capacity.

Also, one very important point is they need to heal from trauma before they can function properly as interpreters. The settlement agencies are working on this, and obviously one of the challenges is the lack of funding to do so because that would be a six-month program, then full training as interpreters. It's a way of dealing with the challenges of languages of lesser diffusion such as in this case.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

The last round Mr. Tabbara and Mr. Whalen are sharing.

Mr. Whalen.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

We've heard a lot, obviously, about the need for additional resources, capacity, or infrastructure to make sure that if we're going to be accepting up to a target next year of 43,000 refugees and protected persons, that we have the necessary government supports in place.

Starting with language, Mr. Khoudeida was here in the previous panel. He's been in Canada, I believe, for 17 years. He provides interpretation services now, but it took him a long time. He says it takes years to settle, become bilingual, and then become an interpreter.

Ms. Bendana, what can the federal government do to help support language interpretation capacity development? We may see a need to help other Rohingya. Would we be ready to provide interpretation for Rohingya? How many? What's the ramp-up period? It seems that a slow, measured approach has some benefits, but it looks like we need to anticipate some of these problems. How can the federal government help anticipate the next crisis?

[Lola Bendana]

Absolutely. There are organizations that are working to support the express training that I previously mentioned. I briefly mentioned the Ontario Council on Community Interpreting. This council involves members of the different stakeholders, including several settlement agencies across Ontario. We have communication with some organizations outside of Ontario as well.

We are working together with the OCCI on that express training which will not be the one full year of training, but will be to assess the needs of those in common and emerging languages who may need something to be done right away. Of course, there will be a need of funding in order to do that, so keeping the communication.... Also, I would think an identification process to understand what is required for a person to properly interpret—

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

That's very interesting, Ms. Bendana. In terms of the existing Yazidi integration process, have we done all that we need to do on that front or do we still need some additional assessment? Do we have a good handle on what the problem is, and we just need more interpreters?

[Lola Bendana]

Yes, absolutely.

One thing one of the other speakers mentioned.... I'm not an expert on the Yazidi community but I know for a fact that in Ontario, in the different associations, there are only two or three interpreters registered for those languages, which obviously is not enough. I would confirm with the council where several associations that are members of the council would be able to help and to work on that integration.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Taylor, in terms of infrastructure needs for the settlement program agencies that you deal with through Refugee 613, what additional measurable supports and infrastructure do your organizations need in order to meet the needs of not only the Yazidis who are coming in, but all the additional refugees we expect to accept under the levels plan?

[Louisa Taylor]

I think they need more of what they get now, so more funding for settlement counselling, particularly employment counselling; reaching out to Canadian employers to help them understand the value that refugees can bring, the skill sets, and how to make the best use of them; and more understanding of cross-cultural practices.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Are we taking newcomers and refugees as fast as we can take them? Are we taking them too fast? Do we have the right capacity levels, or are we a bit behind on the amount of capacity that we have?

[Louisa Taylor]

Wow, I feel really on the hot seat there.

I would say that the Syrian experience was about as fast as people could manage, and it was an unsustainable pace. It was one that everyone undertook with great enthusiasm, and no one would ever say they wish they hadn't done it, but the capacity to accept more refugees is only limited by our ability or our willingness to invest in welcoming them. We have the funds and we have the will. If we want to put those investments in those places, we can bring in far more refugees than we are.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Sorry, I'll just hand it to Mr. Tabbara. We're running out of time.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you.

I want to build on Mr. Whalen's point about resources needed.

Ms. Labman, you mentioned that the Africa region has the highest needs, and there are drops in the U.S. and the EU taking in immigrants.

Has Canada's initiative been well received globally? What other resources do we need here to reach our target for 2018 of 43,000 immigrants?

[Shauna Labman]

I can speak to some of that. I'm not sure I can speak to the latter half of your question.

Canada has always historically been a leader in refugee resettlement. We've been one of the top three since before we signed the refugee convention, and really not until the late 1980s did we even see ourselves as a country of first asylum, because our focus was on this overseas resettlement. Canada has a good reputation on that. At this point, Canada is now busily extending our capacity and knowledge on private sponsorship to European countries and elsewhere that are looking at different ways of dealing with refugee flows in Europe, which is a very different situation than we're facing here.

In that sense, I think Canada is commendable. I think we have to look at our entire process. We have to look at our protection of inland refugees who come here and claim protection. I think we have to look at government resettlement, and on private sponsorship, while it's absolutely incredible to see this level of willingness of the Canadian public to bring in refugees, we have to recognize that the individuals they are bringing in through that program are not necessarily always the refugees in need of protection as identified by UNHCR, and that's problematic when our levels increase to that.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

I'll ask Ms. Taylor one last question. You mentioned in your testimony how you build belonging, and I believe it's through housing, employment, and education. One of our recent announcements was our 10-year, $40-billion housing strategy that I think will help create more belonging for a lot of individuals in Canada and also for immigrants and refugees. Can you comment on how we can build belonging? Do you agree that those three measures are a good way to build belonging for new immigrants and refugees?

[Louisa Taylor]

Absolutely, and I would put housing at the top of the list. In Ottawa we have a lot of problems with affordable housing, and refugees are among the most vulnerable to that. We're looking forward to seeing the details of that initiative and how it works out.

But even when you have a house, you have job, and you can speak the language, if you don't have any friends, if you don't know your neighbours, it's very hard to feel like you belong. Where we come from is believing that the sense of belonging quite often does not happen organically. You need to foster it, and you need to create pathways for people to engage through volunteer initiatives, through helping people understand Canadian culture and navigate it, and just generally build those bridges that don't necessarily happen overnight and by themselves.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Mr. Whalen, you can thank Mr. Cannings, who gave me 20 seconds extra, so you can have it.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Ms. Taylor, earlier you used the word “stunned” and, of course, in a transcript when the Europeans are stunned at how much we're doing, it's not necessarily clear if they're happy that we're doing so much. Could you clarify that comment for us?

[Louisa Taylor]

I think it depends on who you're talking to in Europe. The civil society folks who I'm talking to are extremely jealous. There is definitely a comprehension gap in how we activate civil society in Canada. They expect the government to do everything, and in Canada, we activate civil society. It takes a while for them to wrap their heads around that and understand that it's not necessarily outsourcing or privatizing settlement, although there is that danger, as has been alluded to in this panel. For the most part, they wish that they had the philosophy and the welcoming approach that Canada has.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you for clarifying that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you very much.

With that, the meeting is adjourned.