Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 17th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Sorry, your—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I have a point of order, then.

I just want to clarify that witnesses would be able to submit in writing follow-up information and, hypothetically perhaps, concrete recommendations along these lines.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Yes, witnesses can submit written submissions.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Excellent, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We will now move on to Mr. Serré.

Mr. Serré, you have six minutes for your round of questioning. You can please start.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses for the work they have done in this area for decades. They have overcome challenges and shown courage by speaking out.

My first question is for Alex Neve.

Have you seen any evidence of people from Hong Kong being deterred from applying to relocate to Canada in light of recent events? Are there any specific examples that you could share with the committee and that we could work on?

[Dr. Charles Burton]

Could I answer that?

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Okay, go ahead, Mr. Burton.

[Dr. Charles Burton]

I think the fact that the Hong Kong authorities have been seizing the travel documents of Hong Kong persons who have been subject to police incarceration indicates that they don't want them to be able to leave Hong Kong. It's a very serious issue. I would hope that our government could make some provision for persons who do not have documentation because they are being held by the Hong Kong authorities, to be able to make a passage to Canada.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

Madam Chair, I'll be sharing my time with Ms. Martinez Ferrada.

Mr. Hui Chi-fung, have you received feedback from residents of Hong Kong, and in conversations with your network, about the networks of immigration measures that are available to Hong Kongers? Have you expressed concern about their ability to live safely in Canada through some of these immigration streams that we have?

[Ted Hui Chi-fung]

From exchanges with my fellow Hong Kongers, I would say that a massive number of family units and individuals who participated in front-line protests are very eager to leave the country to escape political prosecutions in court. Of course, Mr. Burton was right that many of them are now on bail, so they are not able to hold a valid passport to even apply for visas or pathways to safe haven schemes in Canada.

I agree that it's important for those who are without passports or other documents proving their identity to be eligible to apply for these schemes. I haven't heard of any difficulties they would expect when studying, working or living in Canada. They are very eager to come.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

I'll pass it on to my colleague, Soraya.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Madame Martinez Ferrada, you can start.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you.

How much time do I have left, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You have three minutes.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

My thanks to the witnesses for being with us this evening. I will ask both my questions now. That will give you time to answer.

My first question is for Mr. Neve.

The government has created programs for Hong Kong residents based on current trends in existing programs. Attempts have been made to strengthen existing immigration corridors. I would like to know whether that was a good way to go about it and whether we should actually widen those immigration corridors.

You talked about resettlement. I'd like to hear from you about that.

My second question is for Mr. Burton.

The government has created programs that were complementary to the immigration corridors that exist among our allies. Should we have replicated those programs instead of complementing what our allies already provide?

[Alex Neve]

Thank you for the question.

Certainly, while it's very understandable that there's been an effort to make use of immigration measures as an initial response to this crisis, as has already been noted here and as other witnesses have noted, that's going to be limited and imperfect given that this is a refugee situation we're primarily concerned about. It's a bit of a square peg in a round hole when we look at that.

We all understand the need to be creative here in using immigration measures or things like temporary resident permits, given that there is that limitation on granting official refugee status while individuals are in Hong Kong. The immigration measures haven't been tailored in a way that's going to be responsive to the reality of those in greatest need. We've heard that powerfully with the reference to Martin Lee's case and by also highlighting the situation of young activists.

If we're going to use immigration measures here, there needs to be a real overhaul of the criteria to make sure they're going to be responsive to who has the greatest need of protection.

[Dr. Charles Burton]

With regard to all things in terms of meeting the challenge of China's flouting of the international rules-based order, I think that Canada is lagging behind all of our Five Eyes partners and like-minded nations. Certainly the British have been recently good in reviving the British national overseas passports, which provide right of entry to Britain to persons who were in Hong Kong prior to 1997 and now extend to them the right of abode in Britain. I know Australia has been much more forthcoming. The families of some of the dissidents, such as Joshua Wong, have recently been able to move to Australia.

Frankly, Canada should be receiving more than everybody combined because of the traditional friendship and relationship between Canada and Hong Kong, where such a large proportion of our population—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Sorry for interrupting you, Mr. Burton, but your time is up. We'll have to move to our next member.

Madame Normandin, you have six minutes for your round of questions. You can proceed, please.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

My thanks to all the witnesses for being here.

My first question is a general question for all the witnesses. It may help them complete their answers to the previous questions.

There seems to be a fairly broad consensus that the proposed immigration measures are too restrictive and not broad enough to accommodate those currently demonstrating in Hong Kong and facing imprisonment. It also seems that all the measures that could affect refugees are insufficient, because often people will not even make it out of the country. Many who try to do so may be put in jail and have their documents confiscated.

I would like to hear from you about the aspect of international relations. In your opinion, do you think that measures that only deal with immigration become a little superficial if we do not apply more diplomatic pressure?

[Ted Hui Chi-fung]

I'll answer that.

Immigration measures of course can be political pressuring tools and can be a gesture of recognition of the freedom movements in the past years in Hong Kong, but in my view it's more than that. Now we are talking about humanitarian assistance. Those people are facing personal threats to their personal safety and are thrown in jail. I, myself, was followed by stalkers and intelligence forces for the past six years before I went into exile. Imagine that life for just normal civilians, for students and for young protesters themselves.

I agree the existing schemes are restrictive and should be more tailor-made for those who are in need. My answer is that, yes, it can be a political gesture and it can be a tool, but it should be more on a humanitarian basis.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I would like to hear what the other two witnesses have to tell us about it. Should we combine immigration measures with diplomatic measures, and apply more political pressure?

[Alex Neve]

Maybe I'll jump in and say absolutely yes. Clearly the best solution to the Hong Kong refugee crisis is to address the human rights crisis. If human rights can be restored to Hong Kong and if this rapid erosion in freedom can be curtailed, people will not need to flee in the first place. That does take us into the diplomatic realm.

Canada has been taking more and more steps over the last couple of years and has spoken out more frequently in the past, but so much more needs to be done here. It absolutely has to be done on a multilateral basis with a growing number of countries. It was encouraging to see that at the General Assembly in the fall, around 37 or 38 countries came together to make a public statement around the Hong Kong situation. We need to get far beyond those numbers.

I think there's a complementarity here. If we are also working together with other governments to do humanitarian work jointly and making it very clear that the international community, not just Canada, sees a refugee crisis in Hong Kong, that adds to the pressure on China as well.

[Dr. Charles Burton]

I would like to see Magnitsky sanctions imposed against those who have been complicit in the disgraceful political persecution of Hong Kong democracy and freedom activists in Hong Kong.

There are a lot of officials of the Chinese regime who have considerable assets in Canada, who have family here and wish to enter our country. I think we have to make it clear to the Chinese government that it's not business as usual with these people so long as what's going on in Hong Kong is going on.

I very much endorse what both Alex and Ted have said about this.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

My next question is a bit delicate. I don't know if you will know the answer to this specific question about VFS Global, a private company subcontracted by the government.

Should the Canadian government ask its supplier, VFS Global, to disclose all requests for access to information, all attempts to obtain information, apparently made by the Beijing government?