Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 22nd, 2021

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I guess the important point, of course, is that no instructions have been given, and there are similarities with Tiananmen Square and what went on in Tiananmen Square, versus what is going on right now in Hong Kong in terms of the urgency and the political implications for the people who face political persecution.

I would like to turn to the point around criminality. You raised this point, and it's been reiterated over and over, and that is to say that on criminality, if the issue surfaces where it is involved—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting. Please adjust your mike.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I actually don't think it's me, Madam Chair. I think it's someone else who is breathing very hard into a mike.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Can I can request everyone else to please mute yourself if you're not speaking?

Please proceed, Ms. Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I hope I don't lose my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

No. I stopped the clock.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

On the question around criminality. I want to raise this issue. For example, a violation such as rioting, before the national security law, would be deemed to be consistent with a law in Canada as well, if you were charged with rioting. Many of the protesters in Hong Kong before the national security law are faced with concerns around allegations of rioting.

How would the IRB deal with those situations and that kind of criminality?

[Roula Eatrides]

We look at decisions on a case-by-case basis with the most up-to-date evidence available.

Under our Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, we only exclude under section 98 serious non-political crimes, war crimes and crimes against humanity. We would look at the current context and we would look at it on a case-by-case basis.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I see.

On pre-removal risk assessment between January and November of 2020, 94.5% of PRRA decisions were negative. Eighty were positive, 1,365 were negative and 685 applications withdrew. For that period, do you know how many Hong Kong pre-removal risk assessments were received and how many received a favourable decision?

[Roula Eatrides]

I wouldn't have the answer to that question. I only have data with respect to asylum claims that have come before the IRB—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Eatrides. The time is up.

We will now move on to our second round of questioning. Before we start, I just want to let everyone know we will have four minutes each for Mr. Chiu and Mr. Dhaliwal, and two minutes each for Madame Normandin and Ms. Kwan.

We will now start our second round of questioning with Mr. Chiu.

You will have four minutes.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My first question goes back to Professor Evans.

Professor Evans, you mentioned the word and that, in Hong Kong, the process of mainlandization has actually accelerated. I would like to hear your view regarding the 300,000 Canadians estimated to be living in Hong Kong right now. Though it doesn't fall into the refugee category, I would like to hear your opinion in that regard. Some of them may have family who are not yet Canadians, permanent residents or immigrants.

[Prof. Paul Evans]

My sense is that there is a comparatively small number of people, of those 300,000, who at this stage are making the calculation to return to Canada in the near future. As things develop, if the economy collapses, if the political situation deteriorates, if there is anything even approximating a Tiananmen Square-style kind of violence, they'll want to leave.

Many of those people are calculating their economic prospects, and the economic situation in Hong Kong is beginning to turn. One of the parts of mainlandization is the growing integration into a Chinese economy that is responding faster, in a post-COVID world, than ours is here. Not all of those 300,000 are going to be seeking refuge. They'll be calculating.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Just like the hundreds of thousands, or just over a million, people estimated to have foreign passports, for these 300,000 Canadian passport holders, the point is to have political insurance should something occur. The latest interpretation regarding the nationality of the Chinese subjects has actually shattered their dreams.

Would that actually cause more of these Canadians' relatives, say brothers or sisters, to actually seek refugee status in Canada? Can you comment on that?

[Prof. Paul Evans]

We don't know exactly how many are in that category, but the dual nationality side is going to be a crucial issue, going forward, as people are going to have to start making choices. It first refers to politicians and others in Hong Kong, but it is coming.

The Chinese can tighten this one down in ways that will cause fear in the hearts of some. We may get some trying to come. We're also going to get a large number of people who will choose to be Chinese, not Canadian, if they are forced to do it, because of their business and because of their connections and their languages.

Yes, we have to be aware of this, but it's not likely to be a flood.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

My next question is for—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You have 30 seconds left.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

In that case, then, I will surrender the remaining time. Perhaps later on I'll ask my 30 seconds in a question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You can ask now. We will not be going back.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

It will take at least 20 seconds for me to read the question, so don't worry about it. I'll just give it up.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. Dhaliwal, you have four minutes for your round of questioning.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all the presenters who have come forward.

Officials have told this committee that Hong Kong residents could come to Canada with an electronic travel authorization, an eTA, which normally takes very little time to obtain online. However, under certain circumstances, these eTAs are refused and the person is required to undergo an interview at the visa office.

Will a protester who was arrested have difficulties in obtaining an eTA? How difficult is it to get out of Hong Kong without an eTA?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Your question is directed to whom?

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

It is for anyone.

[Henry Chan]

I'll try to answer that.

If you're asking how difficult it is to get out of Hong Kong without proper travel documents, it is very hard. We have been noticing and hearing that there has been increased surveillance at the borders and it has been very restrictive after COVID.

Also, those who have been arrested have had their travel documents confiscated, so they can't get out.