Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 22nd, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I call the meeting to order.

Welcome, everyone, to meeting number 17 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

Given the ongoing pandemic situation, and in light of the recommendations from the health authorities as well as the directive from the Board of Internal Economy on January 28, 2021, in order to remain healthy and safe, all those attending the meeting in person, please maintain a physical distance of at least two metres from others. Wear a non-medical mask when moving about in the meeting room, and preferably wear a mask at all times, including when seated. Maintain proper hand hygiene by using the hand sanitizers provided at the room entrance, and wash your hands well with soap regularly. As the chair, I will be enforcing these measures for the duration of the meeting, and I thank all members in advance for their co-operation.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee is resuming its study of immigration and refugee measures for the people of Hong Kong.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. So that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

I would like to take this opportunity to again remind all participants in this meeting that screenshots or taking photos of your screen are not permitted.

For members wishing to participate in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room. Please make sure that before speaking, you wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

As a reminder, all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your microphone should be on mute. With regard to the speakers list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

With this, I would like to welcome our witnesses for today.

We have Paul Evans, professor from the school of public policy and global affairs, University of British Columbia, appearing as an individual. We have Henry Chan, co-director, Saskatchewan Stands with Hong Kong. We are also joined by two representatives from the Immigration and Refugee Board: Roula Eatrides, deputy chairperson, refugee protection division; and Heather Primeau, director general, strategic directions and corporate affairs branch.

Thanks to all the witnesses for appearing before the committee. All of the witnesses will be provided five minutes for their opening remarks.

We will start with Paul Evans.

You have five minutes for your opening remarks. You may please proceed.

Mr. Clerk, do we have Paul Evans?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Leif-Erik Aune]

Yes, he is just joining now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I think we will proceed to Mr. Chan, and then you can do the sound check for Paul Evans.

We will start with Henry Chan, co-director for Saskatchewan Stands with Hong Kong.

You can please begin. You have five minutes for your opening remarks.

[Henry Chan, Co-director, Saskatchewan Stands with Hong Kong]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

It is of course a great pleasure to appear before this committee to recognize our thoughts and recommendations for the humanitarian crisis that's happening in Hong Kong and to protect the people of Hong Kong and the Canadians there in the city.

In previous meetings, members of the Hong Kong diaspora groups, such as Alliance Canada Hong Kong, Canada-Hong Kong Link and VSSDM, appeared before you and gave you many recommendations to help more people most in need, with which I totally concur.

One of the major critiques of the new immigration measures by the Government of Canada is that they are merely an economic measure to attract the best and the brightest immigrants. To truly help the Hong Kong people on the basis of humanitarian relief, shared universal values and the historic relations between the two places, we should focus on trying to help those being persecuted and harassed on a daily basis who do not qualify for the British scheme, and provide them with safe passage to Canada to seek asylum, work or study in an expedited manner. Unfortunately, the current scheme is an utter failure to do so.

Successfully achieving this purpose requires a change of mindset of policy-makers and the frontline staff implementing the policies. Canada must provide a flexible scheme to help the people, such as the 10,000 arrested for doing nothing more than trying to hold the government accountable to the 1984 joint declaration that ensures a free and autonomous Hong Kong for 50 years unchanged.

This allows me to turn to two particular points that I think previous witnesses rarely mentioned. The first is the careful consideration of the number of resources that must accompany any new policy. The second is the matter of the integration of those who will soon arrive to a great country.

Therefore, it is necessary to enhance the capability of our immigration department in accommodating and expediting the application process for political asylum, study permits and work permits to Canada. With regard to this, I have the following recommendations for this committee. Resources must be allocated to the Department of Citizenship and Immigration and to the consulate general office in Hong Kong for providing a provision of official information to the target audience in Hong Kong, and to those exiled elsewhere, on the application of this new scheme—political asylum, open work permits and open study permits to seek refuge in Canada.

In addition, the stationing of a special commissioner at the consulate general office in Hong Kong to be responsible for the processing, verifying and approving of urgent applications for political asylum would be a great advance for this policy.

Madam Chair, it is, of course, easy to say that I will go and live in another country, but this is often more easily said than done. After we attract those new, skilled immigrants to Canada, we must have an approach to assist them in integrating into the Canadian way of life. With regard to this, Canada must have a provision of integration programs, enabling Hong Kong people who arrived in Canada to subscribe to Canadian values and to participate in all aspects of the Canadian community. Such programs and projects can be done by the Canadian government in collaboration with NGOs and well-established Canadian community organizations with a long history and track record of serving the Hong Kong-Canadian community. These programs could henceforth help those who arrive in Canada to achieve employment, seek options for help during their settlement period and, in the long term, become contributing residents to the diverse Canadian fabric.

Madam Chair, Hong Kong is a clear example of China’s aggression and the challenges and threats it poses to democracy and freedom. Providing an immigration route to Canada is a benevolent gesture from the Canadian government, but we must clearly define those most in need and help them accordingly. In places where we cannot intervene, we must speak out and speak the truth when a wrong is being committed. It is in standing firm on our principles that the free world will not further embolden an aggressor.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

We will now go back to Mr. Evans.

Mr. Evans, you can please start. You have five minutes for your opening remarks.

[Professor Paul Evans, Professor, School of Public Policy and Global Affairs, University of British Columbia, As an Individual]

Thank you.

I thank the committee for the opportunity to appear today. My connection with Hong Kong over the past 35 years has been principally as a professor of international relations and trans-Pacific affairs. My perch has been Canadian universities, frequent visits and occasionally teaching courses in political science at the University of Hong Kong.

I appear before the committee as an individual, not as a representative of my own university, the University of British Columbia or the university system.

The unfolding situation in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region has major implications for Hong Kong, Canada and Canada-China relations. Previous witnesses, including Mr. Chan, have offered, with urgency and precision, informed recommendations for measures to address gaps in our efforts to assist those immigrants and refugees eager and, in many cases, desperate to leave for Canada.

I won’t add here to the list of recommendations but instead address three additional matters that need to be part of our approach.

First is understand the setting. The national security law; increased surveillance, arrests and prosecutions; introduction of national education in schools and universities; censorship and self-censorship are all changing Hong Kong’s political and social life in substantial ways. The one country, two systems model has shifted significantly toward one country. Hong Kong is being more closely integrated economically, culturally and politically into the mainland. This is unlikely to stop or be reversed. Many of my university friends are already adjusting to this mainlandization as the new normal.

It is very difficult to get a sense of how many Hong Kong residents want to leave, when and for what reasons. Some motives for leaving include fear of arrest and prosecution for involvement in protests, as we have heard; disillusionment about Hong Kong’s future; and livelihood calculations about future economic opportunities. The best guess is that unless civil order breaks down completely, unless there is large-scale violence or the economy collapses, the level of immigration to Canada, the U.K. and elsewhere will not be unmanageable. Prospects of a mass exodus are small.

The second matter I want to address is the expanded role of our universities. As the previous witness indicated, many people will be coming to Canada. Ottawa’s new program puts a premium on educational connections for attracting and assisting Hong Kong immigrants.

Our institutions, however, don’t yet seem to be registering a sharp uptick of applications in universities and educational institutions. We need to be gearing up in several areas on our campuses, enhancing student recruitment efforts and scholarship support, preparing incoming students from Hong Kong as well as mainland China for adhering to principles of respectful academic atmosphere. We need to be maintaining joint programs with Hong Kong academic partners, but with greater awareness that they may be under restrictions similar to those in our exchanges with mainland Chinese institutions.

One area highlighted in earlier testimony that needs to be underscored is the need for increased vigilance and response in situations of harassment, intimidation and improper surveillance of any student here in Canada.

The third point is the longer game. Hong Kong will remain a point of friction in Canada-China relations for the long term. Issues related to dual nationality, the extraterritorial implications of the national security law and a potential exit ban are going to top the governmental agendas in the short term. Active individuals and communities in Canada will continue to push for democratic reforms and call out violations of the Basic Law and other human rights in a way that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Evans. Your time is up. You will get an opportunity to talk further in the round of questioning.

We will now move on to our third witness for today's panel, which is the Immigration and Refugee Board.

You will have five minutes for your opening remarks.

Ms. Eatrides will start and will be sharing her time with Ms. Primeau.

[Roula Eatrides, Deputy Chairperson, Refugee Protection Division, Immigration and Refugee Board]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am joined today by Ms. Heather Primeau, who is the director general of strategic directions and corporate affairs. I would like to start by thanking the committee for the opportunity to speak with you today.

Before jumping into the issues at hand, I would like to provide you with a brief overview of the Immigration and Refugee Board's mandate. For those of you less familiar with the IRB, we are Canada's largest independent administrative tribunal. Our mandate is to make well-reasoned decisions on immigration and refugee matters fairly, efficiently and in accordance with the law. The IRB is made up of four separate tribunals, which are known as divisions. They are the refugee protection division, the refugee appeal division, the immigration division and the immigration appeal division.

It is the refugee protection division, or RPD, that is responsible for hearing and deciding claims made in Canada for refugee protection. In keeping with our international legal obligations, as implemented through the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, RPD decision-makers decide who is a convention refugee or a person in need of protection. In rendering decisions, RPD decision-makers take into account whether an individual has a well-founded fear of persecution based on race, religion, political opinion, nationality or membership in a particular social group. Decisions are made based on the merits of the specific facts presented in an individual case and in accordance with Canada's immigration laws.

The IRB's role within Canada's refugee determination system then is to make decisions that conform to Canada's law. It is not responsible for developing Canada's policies and priorities as they relate to immigration and refugee matters. This is the responsibility of Canada's Department of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship.

The IRB recognizes that its decisions are always life-changing and impact the lives and security of individuals who appear before it. To provide fair and efficient adjudicative justice, the IRB regularly monitors conditions in refugee-producing countries. The IRB has a world-class research directorate that produces national documentation packages on all countries from which the IRB receives claims, including Hong Kong. The NDPs comprehensively cover the human rights situations in the country, are updated regularly and are publicly available.

Based on the IRB's monitoring activities, all refugee claims from Hong Kong are currently being actively examined and case management strategies are being utilized to promote their efficient determination. Namely, claims from Hong Kong have been identified for triage as part of the IRB's task force on less complex claims. This means that based on current country conditions, the IRB has identified claims made by Hong Kong nationals as suitable to be determined without a hearing or with a short hearing if there are only one or two key determinative issues to be resolved. If there are more complicated questions of credibility or identity, then such cases will not be able to be addressed as less complex but will be decided with a regular hearing.

This type of case management strategy is in keeping with the IRB's past responses and relies on its knowledge of country conditions and claim types. Such strategies increase the efficiency of the refugee determination system by allocating an amount of preparation and hearing room time that is proportionate to the complexity of each unique claim. From January 1, 2020, to February 19, 2021, the RPD finalized 28 asylum claims from residents of Hong Kong with fewer than 20 claims still pending.

In the context of today's session, it is worth briefly examining what the Immigration Refugee Protection Act says about criminality. A foreign national maybe inadmissible to Canada on the grounds of criminality. However, foreign convictions are examined to see whether they would be considered offences under Canadian law if they had occurred in Canada.

In conclusion, I would like to emphasize the fact that the IRB takes its responsibility to render all decisions fairly, consistently and efficiently very seriously. This extends to ensuring that it continuously monitors country conditions to ensure that each and every person claiming refugee status in Canada has access to meaningful adjudicative justice.

Madam Chair, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

Thank you to all the witnesses for providing opening remarks.

We will now proceed with our rounds of questioning, starting with Mr. Chiu.

Mr. Chiu, you have six minutes for your round of questioning. Please start.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Chan, you mentioned that Canada needs to expedite the consideration of resources and receiving refugees who come from Hong Kong. I would like to ask you to share your thoughts on the potential infiltration of pro or hard-core Chinese immigrants coming from Hong Kong. Imaginably, our system being a fair one, there could be ones who are pro-Chinese and who are being persecuted by the other side and would like to claim asylum in Canada.

[Henry Chan]

I think in previous hearings, many witnesses have advocated, and I think it's very important, that for immigrants or political asylum seekers who come into Canada, we need to have a robust vetting system. That means perhaps our RCMP and our CSIS can do checkups on those people before they enter Canada. I think it's very important because of the recent news of Operation Fox Hunt all over Canada and of infiltration by the Chinese Communist Party over different places, not just Canada.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

The other point you suggested was to expose newcomers to Canadian core values, to what is important to Canadians. Wouldn't you say it's just another form of brainwashing, telling newcomers what we believe, and therefore, if they don't agree, they can take a hike? What's your view on that?

[Henry Chan]

I think it's quite different. In China if you were brainwashed at school or whatever, you can't really object. I think in Canada we can give them that opportunity. They don't have to necessarily take it, but it's there when they need it. We have those programs that will be given to those who will come to Canada. If they want, we can help them integrate.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you. That's good.

Professor Evans, can you comment on the clash of civilizations? The Chinese Communist Party is now taking a completely different road. They believe their system would actually work across the world and, therefore, Canadian society and western civilizations are actually the inferior. How do we maintain Canadian societal harmony given the narrative being permeated here in Canada?

[Prof. Paul Evans]

I don't think China wants to export its model to the world. I think what China is trying to do is to make its model safe inside its own country and its immediate periphery. As for seeing Chinese political values as superior or something we'd want to import, I think that's pretty unlikely for almost all Canadians.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you. Some might actually disagree with your first point, but I will leave that alone.

My second question is regarding the potential, or the actual, detected and reported infiltration and influence of foreign actors in Canada. You mentioned that in the university we should try to keep the harmony among newcomer students from not just Hong Kong but also mainland China.

How do we resolve any potential political clashes and also influence by certain actors behind the scenes?

[Prof. Paul Evans]

That's a very important question because there are occasional examples of agents of the People's Republic of China, sometimes representatives from Hong Kong, paying special attention to students on our campuses. Some of those contacts are quite understandable, but they need to be totally transparent. In situations where students are being threatened online or physically, there needs to be an awareness that this is unacceptable and that there will be reporting mechanisms that can be trusted to try to bring in our intelligence and our policing services, if necessary.

It's not a major problem during COVID, when not many people are here on campus, but it will be something that we have to gear up for in new and advanced ways come better circumstances.

[Kenny Chiu, Conservative, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I'll leave the last minute to the Immigration and Refugee Board.

I would like you to expand a little on what is equivalent to double criminality, the equivalent of criminal charges to refugee seekers in Canada versus their place of origin, like Hong Kong.

[Roula Eatrides]

Thank you. That's a great question.

We look at foreign convictions to see whether they would be offences under Canadian laws if they had occurred here. If there's no equivalent offence, the individual would be deemed to be admissible and able to make a refugee claim.

For example, there is no equivalent offence in Canada for participating in a peaceful protest, so a charge or conviction for having partaken in such activities—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Eatrides, but time is up. We will have to move on to our next member. You'll get an opportunity in the next round of questioning.

We will now have Ms. Dhillon for six minutes.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Good afternoon. Thank you to all our witnesses for being here today.

Henry Chan, you mentioned in your statement that it would be important for the Government of Canada to enhance resources for the processing of asylum claimants, and work and study permit applications to Canada.

As it stands, our government has introduced new measures to expedite documents for Canadians and Canadian PRs in Hong Kong. Application processing fees have been waived for Hong Kong residents temporarily in Canada to extend their stay. There are also dedicated task forces at the IRB to speed up this process.

Is this the type of prioritization that you agree with?

[Henry Chan]

Yes, I agree with having new measures to expedite those processes.

One more thing about the resources is also the information. I have received a lot of feedback from the Hong Kong community that there are not enough resources and information on the new scheme. I think we can advance a little on that information, as well.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

One of the things our government considered in the development of the immigration programs set for the residents of Hong Kong was to examine the current immigration trends from Hong Kong and seek to strengthen those corridors already in existence and being used.

Do you believe this choice is helpful for Hong Kongers and will be very expedient?

[Henry Chan]

Yes, I think any new measures for Hong Kong would be helpful.

As I said, even with the best program there are things we can critique. But again, I think more information is important.

[Anju Dhillon, Liberal, Dorval—Lachine—LaSalle, QC]

Ms. Eatrides, it's important for both our government and the people of Hong Kong that they have the ability to come to Canada, but also, should they choose, either on arrival or throughout their stay, that they be able to apply for asylum.

Can you please give the committee an understanding of what process is in place for applicants from Hong Kong and what processes their claims for protection are subject to once they reach the IRB?