Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 21st, 2021

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Ms. Leblond, you were cut off as well, or you ran out of time to make your final remarks.

Food and Beverage Canada have been here. I'm not sure if you're members of those guys, but you certainly have lots of similarities.

They talked about a shortage of 30,000 workers right now going up to 65,000 by 2025. Certainly, you guys talked about the shortage of workers in your particular industry. My guess is you would certainly support any kind of pathway to permanent residency that targeted a larger percentage of these core skilled workers, entry level or whatever you want to call them.

It was well said by the last group of panellists that not a lot of people who came to Canada may have understood the language to level 4, so we've been getting them into our factories and restaurants, and it gives them a chance to learn the language. There's a whole bunch of benefits there.

Certainly, you guys also have people coming in and working minimum wage jobs. There's a whole level of expertise you can use, and you could train people over time.

Would you like to comment?

[Isabelle Leblond]

Yes, the temporary workers we are recruiting abroad are mainly French speakers, specifically because that facilitates not only the obtaining of permanent residence, which is one of our objectives, but also the integration of immigrants into the regions. We train employees from beginning to end in our companies through work peers, and it's going very well.

Previously, the Quebec program made it easier to access permanent residence. Out of Olymel's current 600 temporary foreign workers, more than 200 are already on their way to becoming permanent residents. Had the previous version of the pilot program continued, that number would have doubled over the next few months.

It is a major asset for us to be able to offer permanent residence. Our positions are indeed permanent, and not temporary.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Nord, I want to ask you a question as well.

I'm a big fan of the chamber. I'm a former chamber president in my local area. The work you guys do is important. You guys have a whole range of skills. You have small to large businesses. Temporary foreign workers also fit as highly skilled people.

Would you not agree that if there were a sector-specific strategy or if businesses were to sit down in Canada, in general, it wouldn't be hard to figure out the 400,000 fairly easily? There are a lot of shortages in pretty much every sector across the board.

[Leah Nord]

Yes, absolutely, and that's the important point: across sectors and across skills. They're not “low” or “high”. They're in demand. The other point here, though, from a chamber perspective as well, including the sectoral focus, and I've alluded to it, would also be a geographical one or an overlay and having a community focus as well. You've heard a lot here about rural communities, too, and the need to drive labour there as well.

The other point I'll try to make as we talk about pathways to permanent residency here is that we have any number of recommendations vis-à-vis the temporary foreign worker program. Even the name itself brings up some connotations. However, what is really important about this program, despite its temporary nature, is that people arrive with labour market integration and a job offer. They hit the ground running. This is unheard of in a lot of the other programs. This sets up temporary foreign workers for success from the outset, so we would hate to lose that in any sort of discussion about modernization and changes we'd recommend.

Thank you.

[Dean Allison, Conservative, Niagara West, ON]

Perfect.

I think I'm almost out of time, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Yes, your time is up, Mr. Allison.

We will proceed to Mr. Sidhu, our newest member of the committee.

Mr. Sidhu, you will have six minutes for your round of questioning.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for joining us and providing your valuable insights.

A closer look at labour shortages shows that each province has a different challenge and therefore a different need. The right interpretation of this data for a national labour strategy must incorporate a varied approach to immigration. This approach should harness local expertise and accurately address regional immigration challenges. The federal government has begun with programs like the agri-food pilot, in close co-operation with multiple levels of government, but it's crucial that we all work together.

Ms. Nord, in what ways do you think we can move this forward with a multilateral approach with multiple levels of government?

[Leah Nord]

That's absolutely what's needed. I said that in our opening remarks.

We have three buckets of recommendations for immigration writ large. One of them is on that devolution of the immigration selection process both to the provincial level and, more importantly, to the community level.

What I would say about the rural and northern immigration pilots—11 of them across the country—is that what was really innovative and interesting about those application processes is that a business community, either a chamber or an EcDev, had to lead that application, so it makes sure, again, that the business community is involved. Labour market integration is among the most important considerations, because that's what sets up our immigrants for success, to be sure.

The other point here, and this is crucial moving forward, folks, is labour market assessment. It's not very attractive or headline-grabbing, but we need to know both by sectors and across communities here what is needed, so the devolution is key.

Thank you.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that, Ms. Nord.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on capacity. Should capacity of existing programs increase, in your opinion, or should new pathways be developed?

[Leah Nord]

As the Canadian Chamber, it will surprise no one that we put an emphasis on the economic streams of immigration pathways. What we say about all pathways or all streams is that the importance of labour market integration and setting newcomers up for success from the outset would be the first point vis-à-vis that. I don't know if you have any other specific questions, but it is important.

Thank you.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Perfect.

Ms. van den Berg or Mr. Bourbeau, can you weigh in with your thoughts as well?

[Lauren van den Berg, Executive Vice-President, Government Relations, Restaurants Canada]

Sure. I'm happy to jump in. Thank you for the question.

I think that one of the really interesting challenges facing the restaurant and food service industry—both during this current apocalypse, but more importantly in the before times and what we hope will be a strong revival and recovery—is the discrepancy between the multicultural metropolitan cities and the more rural areas. The discrepancy is in the labour force and the labour shortages.

What we're hoping for when we speak about a dedicated food service stream, for example, a temporary foreign worker program, is a formula, a program or an initiative that takes those differences into account. It doesn't matter if the restaurant is in a more rural or a small-town community or a downtown financial core, they still need the same type of skilled, dedicated and passionate people to open their doors, whether it's front of house or back of house.

As Olivier highlighted in his opening statement, we were facing a pretty devastating labour shortage before this COVID-19 crisis. Right now, so many doors are shut across the country and so many operators are struggling to survive, to make ends meet and to keep the lights on. At the end of that tunnel that we're still in we can see the light, but at that light is also the looming labour shortage that we didn't address before this crisis hit.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that.

The temporary foreign workers program has been helpful in addressing labour challenges, although critics have suggested reform is required to address chronic shortages and ensure that the TFWP is as responsive as possible to labour market needs. The federal government has moved to immigration models using permanent residency in tandem with work in specific sectors experiencing labour shortages. Providing a consistent stream of workers for employers in struggling sectors while also giving assurance for migrants to remain in Canada permanently seems one of the most viable solutions.

Ms. van den Berg or Mr. Bourbeau, can you share your thoughts with the committee on this approach?

[Lauren van den Berg]

Sure. I'm happy to comment.

I think one of the interesting pieces coming out of this conversation, again, from before the crisis but also during, is the challenge around taking full advantage of the TFW program. There's an administrative burden involved in even applying. Again, as Olivier mentioned, that burden is financial. It's the high cost of entry for a lot of the operators, particularly those who have been extremely hard hit by this crisis and are facing increasingly frustrating turnaround times and updates.

As I mentioned, without those back-of-house positions that may not be the most glamorous, a restaurant can't open. Once again, when we're struggling to keep those lights on, every option to make the cost of doing business as easy as possible is even more crucial now.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that.

I only have a few seconds left so I just want to take this opportunity to thank you for taking the time to be with us here today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Sidhu.

We will now proceed to Madam Normandin.

Madam Normandin, you will have six minutes for your round of questioning. Please proceed.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here. This is yet another diverse panel, which helps us gain a clear understanding of the various labour-related challenges that existed pre-pandemic and still exist now, during the pandemic.

I want to pick up on the point Mr. Sidhu made initially, about each region and each occupation type having different challenges.

I would like to hear your views on some of the one-size-fits-all programs the government put in place. The food service and retail sectors come to mind; when the unemployment rate in a region exceeds 6%, the processing of all LMIA applications stops. Right now, the unemployment rate is above 6% across Canada, so I'm interested in hearing your comments on the subject.

What does it mean for you? Despite the high unemployment rate, are your sectors still experiencing a labour shortage?

[Olivier Bourbeau]

That's a great question. I can answer on behalf of the restaurant sector. I'll try to keep it short, since I'm sure you have a lot of questions to get to.

Just because the unemployment rate is above 6%, it does not mean we have the labour we need. Unfortunately, not everyone is willing to work in our sector. It's a very tough sector, one that includes a lot of young people. As I said in my opening statement, young people don't stay in these jobs long. They don't become as involved as they once did, so we are seeing a decline there.

We had considerable needs before the pandemic, and they are only continuing to grow. Today, our need for labour is huge.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

If anyone else wishes to comment, please feel free to jump in.

If not, I'd like to turn to another topic: regularly having to go through the process. A number of witnesses have told us that, year after year, it is always the same employers submitting applications for foreign workers, and it is always the same foreign workers coming back. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

The topic of discussion I want to throw out is this: Should LMIAs or work permits be valid for longer periods?

[Isabelle Leblond]

The process is a significant administrative burden for Olymel. Over the past two and a half years, we have submitted more than 110 LMIA applications and 1,588 certificate applications in Quebec alone. Half of those were renewal applications, so your question is quite relevant, Ms. Normandin.

Yes, work permits should be valid for longer periods, so they are more in line with provincial time frames for obtaining permanent residency. Say, in Quebec, someone is not able to become a permanent resident within two years, their permit should be valid for at least three years. That would give workers time to submit the necessary applications. What's more, we wouldn't have to renew their application or start the process over again, when we know we desperately need workers.

I'd like to answer your previous question, if I may. I was having an issue with my mike. The fact that a region has a high unemployment rate does not mean it has the necessary workers to meet the demand. I completely agree with that. We are based in rural areas, which have small communities. The unemployment rate might well be 7% or 8%, but if there are only 10,000 people living within a 45-kilometre radius, it's not a sizable enough population for us to be able to fill the 300 or 400 vacant jobs we have in a region. Meeting our labour needs depends on more than just the unemployment rate.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Where do you stand, Mr. Bourbeau?

[Olivier Bourbeau]

To answer your question, I would say that work permits should be valid for at least two years. In addition, we would like to see an expedited process for skilled workers who are already working for us so they can come back. Something else we support is a streamlined process for employers, as Ms. Leblond pointed out. That would save us from constantly having to renew applications when we meet all the criteria.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

One thing, in particular, keeps coming up about the LMIA process. The example we heard involved welders, but the issue applies to a number of occupations. When a company doesn't have enough welders in a given area, it has to submit an LMIA application. It's reasonable to expect that the company next door is having the same problem and is also having to submit an LMIA application. In the end, all businesses across the sector are having to submit LMIA applications, even though there is a known shortage of skilled labour for certain types of jobs.

Should the government consider removing the LMIA requirement for more occupations, or perhaps requiring LMIAs on a regional basis? While this may not be the case during the pandemic, the unemployment rate can be quite low, which, from the outset, is a sign of a widespread labour shortage.

Should the government be more flexible about the LMIA requirement?

[Olivier Bourbeau]

I would say yes on both counts. LMIAs should apply to a region as a whole and to an occupation as a whole.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Excellent. That was short and sweet.

Ms. Leblond and Ms. Nord, do you have anything to add?