Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 18th, 2020

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

Like you, I have a lot of difficulty with the temporary foreign worker program. The program was really meant to be for people who are truly temporary, such as visiting professors, for example, or people in the film industry, who have zero intention of staying in Canada. Somehow that has actually become a program to replace immigration processes whereby people can get landed status on arrival.

Once upon a time, Canada actually used to have an immigration program that included high skills, medium skills and low skills. That has now gone. It's all primarily high skills now. You talked about creating a new program called the Canadian front-line experience class. That would be for COVID, but beyond COVID, really, should we not bring back an immigration program that brings all the different skills to Canada, so that when workers come to Canada with the intention of staying, they actually have landed status on arrival?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Ms. Kwan, I'm sorry for interrupting.

Can you please move your microphone closer to you mouth?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

No. My microphone is broken. I'll see what we can do.

[Mark Holthe]

In response to that, yes, I think there needs to be something done, and I think there is a mechanism in place to be able to make that happen. When they come over, if they're on the labour market impact assessment, provinces like Alberta have traditionally picked up that slack. The nominations coming from my province traditionally have encompassed those individuals, but when individuals are here in this situation, especially when they end up like postgrad students, for instance, who are on open work permits, the pathways in many of the provinces just don't fill in that gap.

If an individual is on a labour market impact assessment work permit, it's often a little easier for them to transition through the provinces, but now there's this massive cohort of people who just have nowhere to go. We've already heard testimony from the students about all of the problems with the poor postgrad work, so yes, I think a program needs to be developed.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

On the postgrad situation, would you say what we need to do for this period is to automatically extend the work permits of the international postgrad students so they can have the opportunity to stay in Canada and access the PR process?

[Mark Holthe]

I have thought a lot about that. There are always ripple effects with everything you do. Every single cohort of people will want some help, and I think in this situation there is no harm done by doing that, Ms. Kwan. I don't see any negative consequence of giving a short-term moratorium.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

I would like to turn to Mr. Clarke for a minute. In his opening statement he touched on the refugee claimants' situation and the safe third country agreement.

Right now as it stands, because of the border restrictions related to COVID, refugees cannot get into Canada.

Do you think the government should provide an exemption to refugees? Just because we're faced with a pandemic doesn't mean that people are not being persecuted and don't need to get to safety.

[Alastair Clarke]

Yes. Thank you very much.

I think something needs to be done. The judgment by Justice McDonald at the Federal Court is very clear that the situation for asylum seekers in the United States is very dire. They are routinely detained. I have had clients detained for up to three years in the general prison population in the United States. Canada is now an international beacon of hope.

Notwithstanding this pandemic and health restrictions, I believe there should and can be some mechanism for us to accept some of these refugee claimants from the United States, have them go through the system, have a fair hearing at the tribunal, and have their cases determined by an independent adjudicator.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Right, but even for refugees from outside the United States, should we suspend the border restrictions so they can get to Canada? Once they get into Canada, we can still apply all of health restrictions, such as quarantine and all of those other measures.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

A quick 10-second answer, please.

[Alastair Clarke]

Yes. I would be in favour of that. We have a strong humanitarian tradition that needs to be protected.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you. Your time is up.

We will now move to our second round of questioning, starting with Mr. Hallan.

Mr. Hallan, you have five minutes.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

I will defer my first spot to Ms. Dancho.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, MP Hallan.

Mr. Clarke, I want to talk a little about the refugee application process. I think everyone understands that borders are closed, and it has been even harder than normal for refugees—and that's almost unimaginable.

I want you to lead us through where improvements can be made in the application process, particularly the eligibility interview.

[Alastair Clarke]

We have a number of refugee claimants here, and they have submitted their claims. Right now the refugee claimants in Canada submit an email to IRCC. That email includes an acknowledgement letter. Then the file is moved over to epost. Through epost they are able to upload their documents to IRCC, and they wait for medicals. Once those medicals are done, they are able to have an eligibility interview.

Eligibility interviews are all done in person at this time. I see no reason why, but IRCC has not been flexible on that.

They started doing some eligibility interviews in some cities. I know they are not in Winnipeg, so I can't tell you about that, but in some other cities—I believe Vancouver, Calgary and possibly Toronto, I'm guessing—they were doing some eligibility interviews. In all of the smaller places like Winnipeg, we're not able to do that.

That means their claims are not moving forward, not being referred to the tribunal. That means the tribunal is not able to open a file for them, so they haven't even started with all the processing and delays at the tribunal level.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Okay. Thank you very much.

We know that citizenship ceremonies are now virtual, which is really great news for a lot of people. We took a number of months to get there, but we're there.

Would you say that same process should then be applied to the eligibility interview?

[Alastair Clarke]

Absolutely. Even now we're on Zoom. I don't see why we can't have a virtual eligibility interview. We could have it in my office. I have no problem with that at all.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

My understanding is that unless they get through that eligibility interview, they can't continue with the process. They can't get health care. They can't work. If they get COVID, for example, they're out of luck. My understanding is that it's critical that we get over this barrier.

[Alastair Clarke]

Well, they can get health care.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Oh, okay.

[Alastair Clarke]

When they get the acknowledgement letter, they're able to then book a medical exam with a DMP. That will facilitate access to the interim federal health care program and a work permit. However, they're not able to start their claim at the tribunal.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Okay.

I have another question regarding the case of a Chinese student who was a pro-democracy protester in Hong Kong. My understanding is that they applied to come to Canada a number of times and were rejected three times.

Can you give us any information about that case?

[Alastair Clarke]

He is a Hong Kong student, a very educated young man. We applied, I believe in November of 2019, for an initial study permit. It was refused after two weeks. In my view, it was a slam-dunk case. I believe he was even educated in the United States. He was a very strong study permit applicant.

We JRD it to the Federal Court without even seeing the notes. We produced the applicant's record. I spoke with the lawyer at the Department of Justice. They agreed.

It was actually refused. The officer said that the study program would not be a reasonable expense to our client. The University of Manitoba is a great school. Mark is an alum. I don't see how a study program at the University of Manitoba is not a reasonable expense for a student from Hong Kong. However, for whatever reason, it was refused.

We won at the Department of Justice. They referred it back to the visa office, and it was refused again. Right now the client is extremely frustrated. They don't understand, and we're trying to fix this.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Do you find it concerning that someone who is a pro-democracy protester in Hong Kong is getting roadblocked from getting to Canada? With the announcement last week, you would think this would be a no-brainer.

[Alastair Clarke]

I completely agree. In my view, it doesn't make sense. The government is saying one thing, but the officers on the ground are doing other things.