Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2020

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

It is now my turn to thank the witnesses for sharing their experience. This will help us in drafting our report. We appreciate it very much.

I also want to acknowledge the people of Greater Sudbury. A quarter of my family lives there. Mr. Serré, I must say that your neck of the woods is quite beautiful. I agree with you on that.

My question is for Ms. Aujla-Grewal.

Ms. Aujla-Grewal, since you have seen both sides of the coin by working at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, or the IRCC, and providing your services as a consultant, I would like to hear your comments on the efficiency in terms of file processing.

More specifically, I want to discuss cases where one or two documents are missing. In the current process, the file is sent back to the sender, and its return is awaited. It can sometimes take several months for the processing of a file to begin.

Shouldn't files be systematically opened and checked for missing documents, so that the sender can simply be asked to send out the missing documents?

[Manprit Aujla-Grewal]

I have to say that sometimes a document is not even missing. For example, right now I have at least three spousal sponsorships on which IRCC has advised that the use of a representative form is not there. The form is there. We have a copy of the application package and they have advised that they are not able to release the file number because the use of a representative form is not there.

Those types of challenges are incredibly frustrating. There is a web form we can use to submit the inquiry, and oftentimes we have to submit multiple inquiries and duplicate our work. It's incredibly frustrating.

From the perspective of IRCC, I can see why they want complete applications. If they were to hold every file and then ask for a document, it would really slow down processing times. They're putting the onus back on individuals to ensure the application is complete.

I can understand it from that point, but I do think certain exceptions should be made especially, perhaps, during COVID. I think better attention does need to be paid to the documents that are already there. If certain documents are not essential to the processing of the file right away, maybe that criteria of what gets sent back can be examined.

Other colleagues and I are very frustrated when we get notification back saying the use of a representative form is not there. It happens over and over again, or sometimes documents are there. It's even more frustrating when a file is sent back because an individual loses so many months, and it could be something very minor.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

My next question is for Ms. Armstrong.

Ms. Armstrong, you talked about the economic recovery and the needs to have foreign workers. In my region, employers have expressed concerns regarding the possibility of stopping the processing of their work permit requests and the impact studies on the labour market. They're hearing that the unemployment rate is so high that we do not need foreign workers. One of the arguments going around, for instance, is that it is impossible to turn our unemployed people into welders with an equivalent of 15 years of experience in a short period of time.

I would like to hear your comments on this and on the fact that the labour shortage and the high unemployment rate are two different things.

[Meredith Armstrong]

I think you've made a very good point. In fact, our labour shortage in Sudbury has been going on for quite some time, and it's across all sectors and at all different levels of skills and experience. Our hospitality sector, hotel work, housekeeping, has been mentioned. We're desperate for personal support workers as well as all kinds of welders. We have a mining supply and service sector with hundreds and hundreds of companies and entrepreneurs who are looking for almost all of those ranges of experiences.

People need to understand that there are different approaches needed for different levels of experience. We need to support those entrepreneurs who have worked very hard over the last few years to increase their capacity to go after global markets and to make sure they are equipped to find a specific person with a skill set they're looking for. We also need to make sure employers are equipped to hire 15 housekeepers very quickly, because they're turning away business when they don't have those people in place.

We also see that within a newcomers' audience there's often a willingness to take on jobs that Canadians for one reason or another may not be as willing to take on. I think we are very proud of newcomers who have taken on tough jobs and built a life for themselves, really, built businesses for themselves and hired other people.

It's not one-size-fits-all. The unemployment participation rate is another important number that is misunderstood often. I think there's an education process that is needed for our communities.

Smaller communities that are just getting into this game need some committed time to make sure they have the understanding of the perspectives.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I have very little time left, but I would like to put another question to you, Ms. Aujla-Grewal.

Doesn't giving extra points to people who have filed several sponsorship applications for parents or grandparents lead to first-time applicants feeling like there is no chance of their application being processed?

You could perhaps answer me during the second round of questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I am sorry for interrupting but your time is up.

We will now move to Ms. Kwan for six minutes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses. I would like first to go to Ms. Grewal.

On the issue around post-grad work permits, the reality is that many of the students' permits are going to be expiring in the coming weeks, so they are very anxious about that. Given the workload that's before IRCC with the delays in processing, should the government not explore ideas for how they can automatically renew expiring work permits, so that these people can actually have status and be able to have that securely in place during this COVID period?

[Manprit Aujla-Grewal]

Yes. I'm not sure how a blanket extension process would work. I think that could be a little bit troublesome. Having worked with IRCC, I think a realistic approach would be for individuals to make an application. However, the post-grad work permit application process has been fairly straightforward. The number of documents required is not large. They need just a completion letter and their transcripts.

If an individual already has a post-grad work permit, those criteria have already been assessed, so I think for post-grad work permit-holders, making a new application would be quite simple as long as the criteria allowing them to do so were announced.

Similarly to the situation for spouses, we recently announced that if they secured stage one approval, with the changes in the dual intent, it would be very easy for them. They just need to be given a mechanism by which they can submit this extension application.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

The problem, of course, is that IRCC doesn't have enough resources. The minister actually announced a 14-day processing time for extended family reunification applications. The 14 days is not being met. I'm trying to figure out what to suggest to the government in terms of how they can scale resources to get on with the process. I'm very worried that for the post-grad applications, people would actually miss the deadline even if it were announced now.

As you know, the government had made an announcement on the guardian angels program. It still doesn't have an application process for the guardian angels, so there is a lot of talk and very little action. I'm very worried about how that will play out.

I am going to switch over to another sector, the caregivers. As a result of COVID, they have lost time through no fault of their own. They have to meet their two-year work requirement. In the meantime, their children are aging out. Would you support the call for the government to accept the lost time towards their two-year work application as well as the proposal to ensure that there be a mechanism to freeze in time the age of the children who are aging out so that they don't end up being outside of the PR application process?

[Manprit Aujla-Grewal]

That is an excellent question. On those individuals who aren't able to accumulate the work experience before their dependent children no longer meet the age to be dependent, that's a very good point. I think it's definitely an area that the government needs to consider. So, yes, I would definitely support maybe a freeze in the lock-in date of the age. Definitely that is something that should be considered. I agree with that.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

The other aspect is with the certificate of PR. Many of the folks who have actually gone through the entire process have been approved but, of course, their certificate of PR has now expired and they have no ability to actually get it renewed. Even IRCC staff, when my office has contacted them through the inquiries line, have said that they have no idea when this will happen. So people are stuck. Their lives are completely in limbo. Would you agree that the government should, in fact, just recognize the certificates of PR and honour the expired certificates of PR so that people can get on with their lives?

[Manprit Aujla-Grewal]

I can see that presenting some problems.

I think that in some regards, unfortunately, whether you're an immigration consultant, a lawyer, an individual or the department, everyone's patience across the board, for everything, is being tested due to COVID. Unfortunately, there are some areas where individuals will just have to wait until IRCC gets to them. The expired—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'm sorry. Can I interrupt for a second?

You say that you see some problems with recognizing expired certificates of PR. What are those problems?

[Manprit Aujla-Grewal]

These are individuals who maybe don't meet a residency obligation and who maybe are trying to use an expired document where they don't meet the residency.... It would be very difficult, perhaps, to determine which individuals don't meet it if they're travelling with an expired document. I guess criteria would have to be established on how expired this document that they're travelling with can actually be—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Expired within the COVID period, because for most of the folks, actually, who were approved during this period and during the COVID period, their certificate of PR has now expired. Therefore, they cannot utilize that document to get into the country, and they don't really have the ability, because IRCC doesn't have a clear process, to be renewing their certificate of PR. I'm not talking about expired certificates of PR from six years ago—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Ms. Kwan, I'm sorry for interrupting. Your time is up. Thank you.

We will now move to our second round of questioning. We will have MP Saroya for five minutes.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for the good advice they're giving us.

I heard the words “labour gap” from Sudbury. I hear “labour gap” in Toronto all the time. The issue is that we have the people. What possibly can be done?

Five years back, about 5% to 10% of students were working in the restaurant industry or the transport industry. That became 20% and then 30%. In many industries, they're about at 80% to 100%. Only the students are working. What can be done for them? They're here. They speak the language. They understand the Canadian culture. They are perfect for Canada.

What can be done? What would you recommend to make sure that we can keep these students in Sudbury, in Toronto, in B.C., in Montreal or on the east coast.

We can start with Ms. Armstrong, please.

[Meredith Armstrong]

I think that's a really good question. We know that there's no one silver bullet and that it can't be done by any one organization.

Here at the city, we have a leadership role, but we are in a close partnership collaboration with our three post-secondary institutions, because they're the main drivers for a decision made by a student internationally or even domestically in coming from a different part of the country to Sudbury. We need to make sure they have the support they need to continue the programs, particularly at the college level in the applied programs that are needed by the industry.

We need to make sure that we continue to support employers in considering the talent pool that we have right here in the city. As you say, they are here. They love Sudbury. They want to stay for the long term. We actually have quite reasonable housing rates, although I have to tell you that we've had a really busy year for home sales.

Some employers really get it and are long-standing partners. They have trained what has become a wonderful alumni of students who go on to become really talented employees. Other employers haven't necessarily considered that pool yet.

We need to support our colleges through folks like our chamber of commerce and through our local immigration partnerships to ensure that employers understand that they can and should consider hiring international students. I think that programs through both our provincial and our federal partners that provide internships, funded internships, are a wonderful way, and pretty low risk, really, for an employer to consider taking on for a short period of time someone who is new. A combination of these things, hopefully, will start to secure that talent for those employers.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

Manprit Grewal, since you know the problem from both sides—from the IRCC and as a consultant—what can be done? How can we or the government help out these students? Those people, when they get their immigration, are going to be here for the next 30 years. They're 20, 22, 23 or 24 years old. Again, as I said, they speak the language, they understand the Canadian culture and they're absolutely willing to work hard for a number of years.

Manprit, if you can, tell us what can be done from both sides so that they can stay here for the long term.

[Manprit Aujla-Grewal]

Mr. Saroya, if I understand your question correctly, it's about how we can retain international students.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Absolutely.

[Manprit Aujla-Grewal]

With international students, perhaps we also need to consider, again, offering them the ability to apply under low-skill occupations as well. I see many international students as new graduates. They're not necessarily right away able to work in a skilled position, so many international students are working in NOC C or D occupations. These individuals have Canadian education. They have the language. By working in those NOC C or D occupations, they will eventually become skilled, but their starting point might be at a lower skill level.

For example, some international students might be doing the occupation of long-haul trucking because financially they find that very lucrative. Maybe they don't have a spouse or children, so they're able to perform this occupation.

With regard to international students, if we allow them some permanent residency options under NOC's lower-skilled occupations, I think we would be able to retain more international students in Canada.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

In the GTA, I've seen the same thing as—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

Mr. Regan, you have five minutes.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Ms. Aujla-Grewal, what have you seen as the major trend in the immigration consulting profession since the beginning of the pandemic?