Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 27th, 2024

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

We can certainly give you a breakdown for that.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I'll hand over the rest of my time to Mr. Redekopp.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

Mr. Redekopp, go ahead, please.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, section 35(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act says that a foreigner is inadmissible to Canada if they have violated human or international rights, things like genocide, war crimes, etc.

The lead prosecutor for the International Criminal Court has requested that arrest warrants be issued for both the Minister of Defense and Prime Minister of Israel for war crimes.

Justin Trudeau was asked on Friday last week if the government would support the International Criminal Court. His answer was, “The ICJ's proposals are binding and we expect everyone to follow them as a matter of international law.”

Therefore, since the ICJ considers Benjamin Netanyahu a wanted war criminal, can you confirm that he would be arrested in Canada?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I think you know, MP Redekopp, that he is not in Canada.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

You are the decision-maker in this, and I think there are a lot of people who want to know that answer, what Canada considers him to be. The Prime Minister has been very clear that the ICJ's proposals are binding, and so I'd like to know what Canada's position is on that.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I'm not answering a hypothetical question about someone who isn't in Canada, nor should a minister comment on who will or will not be arrested. It's up to the authorities in Canada to apply the law. I don't think you want ministers arresting people.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

In the U.S., they've made this determination. They've said no, he would not be arrested, that Israel has a right to defend itself. France, on the other hand, has said yes, that he is a war criminal.

Are you saying that this has not been discussed, that there's been no thought put into this, that you haven't been privy to those conversations?

Is Canada not on the ball with this? Are we not asking this question? Are we not preparing for this?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I have not been privy to a conversation as to whether Mr. Netanyahu, in the event he comes to Canada, would or would not be arrested. That's correct.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

This issue is in the news every day and people are talking about it all around the world, including in Canada. People are asking about it. This is leading the news in terms of what's going on right now in the war in Israel and the Palestinian war. Are you saying there have been no discussions in cabinet, in your circles, with the Prime Minister, with anybody about this issue and how Canada would deal with this ruling from the International Court of Justice?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

The ruling was issued a couple of days ago. There hasn't been a cabinet meeting since then.

I told you I haven't been privy to a discussion specifically about your highly hypothetical question.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

How is it that the U.S. has already determined this and France has already determined this?

Canada used to be a leader in the world, but apparently now we're not. We always seem to wait until the last minute to make decisions on just about anything. There was a time before this government when Canada was respected in the world with the way that we led, the way that we would show our leadership in the world, and yet this government seems to wait until the last minute to do everything.

This, to me, is another example of a case where there has been no thought put into this. Is that true?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Honourable Minister, the time is up. You can respond briefly, please.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I think the implications that you're suggesting are true, but that was a bit of a rambling statement with the question, is it true, so I don't think I can qualify it anymore.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Mr. Redekopp.

I will go to Madam Zahid for six minutes.

Please, go ahead.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing before the committee on this important issue.

Minister, how many extended family members of Canadians or permanent residents have left Gaza through the special measures program?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Thank you, MP Zahid, for the question.

This is an important answer, so I would ask that you bear with me. I'm going to give you a number of facts and statistics that I think are very important.

The first one is for the number of TRV applications from Palestinian nationals approved between October 8, 2023 and May 10, 2024. It excludes the Gaza public policy and assisted departure applications. That is 448. The number of visas issued as part of the Gaza public policy—going directly to your question—is 250. As you know, because the figure has been quite public, there have been 870 people assisted as part of the assisted departure applications.

The question may come up regarding those who are presumed to have come here. We have, as a number, 987 individuals with Palestinian authority travel documents presumed to have travelled to Canada between October 15, 2023 and April 30, 2024. That in itself, obviously, would exclude people travelling on Canadian documents.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Minister, I've been hearing reports of long delays in Egypt for people who left Gaza not through the program but by bribing a border guard or exiting Gaza through means other than the official list.

Could you please explain the reason for the delays in reuniting these people with their families here in Canada?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Yes. As you know, my team has been working intensely on this question since I last appeared in order to deal specifically with some challenges among those who took matters into their own hands to guarantee their own safety and exit through the Rafah crossing. In all cases, I believe, they had to pay exorbitant sums to leave, which I believe is unacceptable. It is obviously highly frustrating for people who are fleeing war and looking simply to stay alive.

We designed the public policy assuming there would be co-operation with COGAT—not presuming but assuming—to exit, in a structured way, through Rafah gates. Up until very recently, that was not possible. There were a number of questions as to whether this program was going to be recognized or not. I would say that, very recently—up to the closing of the Rafah crossing again on May 7—we had some positive signals from the Israeli government that this program would be recognized and that the processing through COGAT would be done in a timely fashion. Unfortunately, as you know, a number of events happened, including a more intense ground offensive in Rafah.

All that said, for those people who exited Gaza on their own terms, we have done one of two things. We included them under the current policy, or, for those who didn't have codes or applications submitted, taken another way through a temporary resident visa. We've issued all categories together. It's close to 500 in those particular categories. We had to make some adjustments. I believe that is something that had to be done.

Again, the public policy program.... Perhaps some of those who faced delays by taking matters into their own hands and leaving through the Rafah crossing on their own had to wait some time as we looked to carve them in and get them safely to Canada—again, after having gone through the biometrics and security processes.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Minister, are you confident that those who are able to leave Gaza will be allowed to return to Gaza following the conflict? Will you assure them Canada will do all it can to ensure their right to return to Gaza?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I think it would be naive to express full confidence that Canada could guarantee that return. I think we will do everything possible to make sure that is the case, including through diplomatic means. We certainly will not keep people in Canada.

However, with the current war going on and the massive destruction that has occurred in Gaza, we would obviously want the conditions to be such that we can make sure people are safe. That is not something I can predict right now with any sort of reliability, so I don't want to give anyone that naive assurance.

From a diplomatic perspective, I can certainly say we will make sure we advocate that people who have come here have the right to go back to Gaza.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I've heard from many constituents with family members who have been given a code but have been told they will not be able to be put on the list to leave Gaza. Could you please clear up this confusion? Will they be put on the list, or will they have to cross on their own?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

As you know, being issued a code means that you go to the next step and are dealt with as part of the application process. I do want to hasten to add that this is not dealing with Canadian residents, Canadian nationals or permanent residents. They're families of those members, so there does need to be a process that is applied. However, to the extent—and we are working on this—that we can ensure that the assisted departure process is respected, we do our utmost to get them on the list that is to be submitted subsequently to COGAT. Obviously, we don't have discretion as to which ones COGAT then decides are able to leave, but we do all that we can to make sure that the information is gathered and submitted, and then the triage occurs by the Israeli Minister of Defense.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Madam Zahid.

Now we will go to my dear friend, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Please go ahead for six minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, minister, for being with us today. I'd like to begin by commending this morning's announcement of the special measures for people in Gaza, which increased the ceiling on temporary resident visa applications from 1,000 to 5,000. We thank you for having made this decision, and want to acknowledge it.

The last time you appeared before the committee, we did indeed discuss what was happening in Gaza. I had also spoken to you about the Bloc Québécois proposal—I was the one who made it—approximately two years ago now, with respect to the IRCC's permanent urgent processing mechanism. You told me at the time that it was in progress, and that a crisis unit was being established, but that parameters had not yet been determined.

That was two years ago. Two deputy ministers have already told me that it was in fact an excellent idea and that people were working on it. And yet I have not seen any outcome or announcements. All I've heard from people is that they are working on it.

Is this work on it going to continue forever, or is it really going to happen?