Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 3rd, 2024

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Just very quickly, the MPFA released a statement on March 10, 2021, in which it renewed its guidance for MPF withdrawals and said that British national overseas passports were no longer recognized by the Hong Kong government as valid travel documents. Can you then tell me whether your companies follow this guideline?

Ms. Greenwood and Ms. Hewitt, just answer with a simple yes or no.

[MaryScott Greenwood]

Our company complies with the regulations in all the jurisdictions in which we operate. The answer to that is that, yes, we do.

[Laura Hewitt]

In terms of the travel document, that part isn't the relevant portion for us. The relevant part is what is considered a proof of permanent departure. The travel document is not relevant to our decision.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Ms. Hewitt.

That means.... I want this data, then, because there are so many numbers bandied about, and eligibility keeps being used in front of the numbers. I want to know how many total applications were made by Canadian PR holders and citizens who originate from Hong Kong. On the PR cards specifically, I want to know how many times GBN appeared under nationality? How many times did GBO, GBR and GBS appear on the PR cards?

This is important, because we're being told that where it appears as GBN on the PR card, that's how you identify a BNO passport holder who has come to Canada and obtained permanent residency in Canada.

This leads me to my next question. I've heard “eligibility” in front of all of your numbers. How many times did the MPFA reject applications approved by Sun Life, and how many times did the MPFA reject applications submitted by Manulife?

Ms. Hewitt, if you could start....

[Laura Hewitt]

As I shared in my opening remarks, the MPFA declined 1.2% of our applications. I believe the number is around 172 applicants. That's globally, not specific to Canada. In those cases, it was folks who had previously accessed the permanent departure streams. You're allowed to permanently depart and use that stream for early unlocking only once in your lifetime. Those folks had previously accessed that.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Can you provide the committee with the exact number, just for Canada?

Mr. Chair, if I could hear Ms. Greenwood's answer....

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Sure.

Madam Greenwood, go ahead, please.

[MaryScott Greenwood]

Yes, absolutely.

Of 4,650 requests from 2021 to 2023 for early withdrawal for the reason of permanent departure to Canada, we were able to process 3,750 of those. Three per cent of the customers did not provide sufficient evidence of the right to permanently reside in Canada. The remaining customers either had incomplete documentation or were not processed for a variety of other reasons, like a signature mismatch or a previous MPF withdrawal.

I want to assure the member—

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Ms. Greenwood. I appreciate that answer.

That's a repetition of what other members have heard as an answer.

This is for both of you, and, Mr. Chair, if you could seek the consent of the committee for this information to be brought to us, that would be great: total applications; citizens of Canada and PR holders where those four nationality identifiers appear, how many were approved and how many were rejected by the MPFA, and how many were declined or rejected by the companies themselves. If you could send that information, that would give us certainty.

My last question, because my time is running out, is this: Why are you still operating in an autocratic totalitarian regime that's dominated by Beijing?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Madam Hewitt and Ms. Greenwood, please provide brief answers.

[Laura Hewitt]

We have been in Hong Kong since the 1890s, as I shared with the committee. We have long-term commitments to our clients. In this case, almost a million Hong Kongers depend on us for their financial security and for the security of future generations and their families. These commitments last 30, 40 or 50 years. These are long-dated products—products like life insurance and critical illness insurance—so we continue to be there for our clients in their times of need and plan to continue to support them, now and into the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Madam Greenwood, we are at 4:30. Please provide a brief answer.

[MaryScott Greenwood]

Thank you.

Manulife is a proud Canadian company with a long history of serving our customers, regular people across many jurisdictions, for decades. Wherever we do business, we focus on protecting families through insurance and also with pensions to secure their retirement. It's true in Asia. It's true in the United States. It's true in Canada. We are proud of the work we do for our customers, and we will remain devoted to our customers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much.

Now we will go to Mr. Chiang for four minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the two witnesses for being here.

This question is for both witnesses.

Despite the possible challenges in patriating funds to Canadian account holders, do you not believe Manulife and Sun Life have a responsibility to fulfill their obligation to pensioners, despite possible transfer issues?

[Laura Hewitt]

I would confirm to the committee that we continue to support our clients and provide them these services in their retirement. Again, these are intended to be there for them when they're 65 and into their retirement years.

For those who have departed and are Canadian permanent residents and Canadian citizens, we are approving all the applications we receive that are eligible for the early unlocking of their funds and meet those criteria.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Madam Greenwood.

[MaryScott Greenwood]

Could you repeat the question, please?

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Despite possible challenges in patriating funds to Canadian account holders, do you not believe Manulife and Sun Life have a responsibility to fulfill their obligation to pensioners despite possible transfer issues?

[MaryScott Greenwood]

We are absolutely devoted to fulfilling our obligation to pension holders. We've been doing that for 137 years. We seek to do what's best for our customers around the world. We will always do that. We will also comply with the rule of law and the regulations that govern the activities of the highly regulated financial services sector in which we find ourselves.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

What is the total pension liability currently held by your respective insurance companies to Hong Kongers?

As well, what are the total deposits and estimated values?

[Laura Hewitt]

I don't have that information in front of me today, but I would be happy to follow up with the committee with that information.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

Madam Greenwood.

[MaryScott Greenwood]

As of March 31, 2024, Manulife manages, in Hong Kong dollars, $330 billion of customer savings in MPF pensions. This is publicly available information. You could look at Mercer's “MPF Market Shares and Net Fund Inflow Report” or also our public filings for our assets under management.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

What have you communicated to your clients on this issue?

On what timeline do you think this can be resolved so that pensioners can get what they are owed?