Evidence of meeting #12 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghanistan.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Ms. Xavier.
Ms. Kwan, you have two and a half minutes. Please begin.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Can the officials advise what immigration measures are available to refugees in Ukraine—i.e., Afghans and other racialized minorities—and how they can get to safety in Canada?
12:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We are definitely conscious of the fact that it's not just Ukrainians who are fleeing Ukraine. We are working with the countries that are surrounding Ukraine, to which refugees are making their way—for example, to Poland, Germany and other surrounding countries. We recognize that in some cases, some of those who are fleeing may find refuge within the neighbouring countries more directly, or they may return to the country of origin.
Having said that, should they have an interest to come to Canada, the options and pathways exist for them to be able to indicate that, and we would be able to assist them. That is not something we've seen automatically.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Can you table those pathways to the committee, please? I actually have been contacted by refugees in Ukraine who wish to come to Canada, and I don't know where to send them. Even if they made it to Poland or other countries for safety, they still wish to come to Canada.
I would love to get that information from the officials. Can you just table that information? I don't have time to get into it here.
12:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Sure.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I'd also like to ask you this. To what extent has IRCC processed the emails that Afghans were directed to send to the government? How many of those emails have received a response? I don't mean the standard automatic response.
As well, what work is being done by the department to coordinate and facilitate the generosity of Canadians who wish to help Ukrainians arriving in Canada? For example, people are offering their homes to host them. We need a coordinated effort to galvanize the strength of Canadians who wish to help.
I'm running out of time, so if I don't get answers to those questions here, perhaps you could table those responses.
12:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Just for clarity, I think your first question was on Afghanistan and the second one was on Ukraine. I just want to be certain that I understood that clearly.
12:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
On the first part of your question, with regard to Afghanistan, we have a dedicated service channel where people are able to call and also send emails. I do not have those stats with me at this point, but I can definitely follow up and share the statistics with you. We do track the number of calls received. There's a very high percentage answer rate to individuals' calls and emails. They're all acknowledged and responded to.
With regard to Ukraine—
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Ms. Xavier. The time is up for Ms. Kwan.
We will now proceed—
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Madam Chair, on a point of order, I asked whether I could get the response to those questions tabled if I didn't get a response here. Could I get confirmation on that from the officials?
12:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Absolutely. We can follow up and give you an answer to the Ukrainian part of that question as well.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you.
We will now proceed to Mr. Benzen. You will have five minutes for your round of questioning. You can please begin.
March 24th, 2022 / 12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Benzen Conservative Calgary Heritage, AB
Thank you, Chair, and thank you, witnesses.
Earlier today the minister said that the main purpose of the AI technology was to filter all of the files into two types, either very simple cases or very complex ones.
I'm curious. Of all the files, what proportion is simple and how many are complex?
12:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I don't know if I have the stats handy, but perhaps Pemi Gill has them.
Just to begin to answer your question, as was stated by the minister, many applications that are repeat clients, for example, would be potentially seen as something non-complex, because we have a great deal of information on them already: the fact that we issued them a visa already, that they're in good standing, things of that nature.
You're specifically asking for statistics, so I will see if Pemi Gill has some information for you.
12:50 p.m.
Director General, International Network, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Unfortunately I don't have an exact statistic for you. Depending on the program, the models would yield different results. For example, as the deputy minister has stated, when we use advanced analytics for visitor applications, we are looking for low complexity versus more complexity. Low complexity is often that they've previously travelled to Canada; they've previously travelled elsewhere, or other factors that would contribute to low complexity.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Benzen Conservative Calgary Heritage, AB
Okay. I'm just curious. What I'm getting at here is that we spent a huge amount of money on software. Do we know how much money we invested in this software, this program?
12:50 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
When you say “this program”, are you speaking of the advanced analytics software?
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I can definitely get back to you with that, as I don't have that information with me at this moment. Having said that, it isn't, from my awareness, a piece of software that's extremely complex, so it's not one that I expect we spent a whole lot of money on.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Benzen Conservative Calgary Heritage, AB
That's good. That's interesting.
We had a professor here on Tuesday who was very concerned that the data that we were putting into the AI system was already tainted, that some of the data, but not all, was biased and maybe already prejudicial.
Do you think his concerns are legitimate?
12:50 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
As mentioned before, we ensure that our employees are effectively trained to be able to make the decisions they're making. That includes anti-racism and unconscious bias training.
However, I'm going to ask Pemi to give you some additional information.
12:50 p.m.
Director General, International Network, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
IRCC's advanced analytics models are compliant with the Treasury Board directive on automated decision-making, and algorithm impact assessments are done on the models. Those are available on the Open Government website.
As part of the development of the model, there is definitely an extensive review process for potential discriminatory impacts. Rules are vetted by subject matter experts to determine that they reflect the legislative and regulatory requirements; and this system is also subject to a host of due diligence activities, including legal review, privacy impact analysis and gender-based analysis plus in order to identify and mitigate risks.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Benzen Conservative Calgary Heritage, AB
Basically you're saying that you don't think his concerns are legitimate, that the system is working as it's supposed to be. Would that be a fair statement?
