Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 24th, 2022

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Look, I understand the challenge that a lot of people have with it. I share, to some degree, the sensitivities toward the need to do everything we can to support everyone who's vulnerable and fleeing conflict, but I would object to just one piece of your argument, if you'll allow me. It's not the government that's making it more difficult to leave Afghanistan than it is to leave Ukraine. It's the Taliban. The reality on the ground is that it is really challenging for people to leave.

On the temporary nature of the program—which is one of the other challenges we have—we have faith, because of the situation that's playing out, because of the situation being in flux, that there is a really serious possibility that the vast majority of people who want to seek safe haven in Canada actually wish to return to Ukraine. I've heard this from Ukrainians in Canada and from the commissioner of the European Union during a meeting this week. They're doing everything they can to make sure that people go back to Ukraine when it's safe to do so.

I really wish that were true in Afghanistan, but since the Taliban has seized control, I hate to admit that the likelihood that people who are coming here are going to be able to return is just not there. We have to make a plan to support these people and to welcome them on a permanent basis, and that changes the tools we can use.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

The election, of course, threw a big wrench into that. At the end of the day, there are way more ways to process biometrics near Ukraine that aren't available in Afghanistan. I mean, these are things that you as a department can set up, that you can impact, so I believe you're making it more difficult for Afghans to get here as well by not having the systems and processes that need to be in place for this to happen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting. Time is—

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

When we secure safe passage for people fleeing Afghanistan, biometrics will be part of that approach.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. El-Khoury, you have four minutes. Please begin.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for your generosity with us, as you frequently come here to answer our questions and enlighten us.

You were appointed to the position of Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship a few months ago and you have succeeded in making Canada an example to the world. I congratulate you heartily for that.

The department has conducted an algorithmic impact assessment to evaluate the analytical models used for temporary resident visa applications.

Could you provide further details on how this assessment has reduced the risk of bias being built into the advanced analytics program?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

The key point for me when it comes to the use of advanced analytics is really about making sure that we can process cases as efficiently as possible without compromising the integrity of the process. We want to ensure that every applicant gets a fair chance to make their application and have that application heard.

When we use advanced analytics, essentially what it does is that it identifies the simple cases that don't have any complexity. Think of somebody who has come and returned to Canada many times and has always followed the rules. The use of advanced analytics can identify that application and make sure it's dealt with by someone in the department who will be able to process it fairly quickly.

For situations that have complexities—maybe there was a security flag on a file, or maybe it involves factors that lead to somebody needing to take a deeper look—they will go through the ordinary assessment process and still benefit from an officer who has to go through all the application information.

It is essentially a sorting mechanism that has yielded, for non-complex cases, an 87% increase in efficiency.

If we're dealing with the non-complex cases, which are far more likely to be approved without having to go down and do a deeper analysis, it makes sense to me, because the people who are going into that side of the assessment are not being prejudiced. They're being treated more quickly.

To the extent that there are people who may have more complex cases, every single file still has to be reviewed and approved by a human being who works for IRCC, not a computer system. The system doesn't make recommendations. It doesn't make approvals or rejections, but it allows us, on those simpler cases, to deal with them in a more expeditious way.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you.

Minister, could you briefly and more specifically describe how the program designed for the situation in Afghanistan and Syria differs from the one designed for the situation in Ukraine?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I'm sorry. My sound is having a problem. Would you mind repeating the question?

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Could you briefly and more specifically describe how the program designed for the situation in Afghanistan and Syria differs from the one designed for the situation in Ukraine?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Certainly. Afghanistan is, though, a unique situation, a rather traditional refugee response with some really unique innovations. With respect to Afghanistan, it's traditional in the sense that we will be getting people to Canada and extending to them the full range of settlement supports that refugees typically receive, but it's unique in the way that we've identified the special immigration measures for those who've made a significant and enduring contribution to Canada.

It's unique in the way that we've built in a family reunification component for the extended families of previously resettled interpreters, and then it's again more traditional in the way that we're embracing people who are fleeing persecution based on who they are as a person. With respect to—

Madam Chair, has my time ended? I saw your card.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Yes. Can you wrap up in the next 30 seconds?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Certainly.

With respect to Ukraine, the situation is unique because we're dealing with a country where people have maintained access to leave in a westerly direction, and we believe, through many conversations, that a lot of the people are not looking to move permanently to Canada.

Some are, and we are developing a family sponsorship stream for that specific purpose, but the people who are coming here are likely to go back, so in an emergency we created a temporary program that allows them to get here, and we've pulled off almost all the requirements that would normally lead to a person being rendered inadmissible to Canada so that we can welcome more people as quickly as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Minister. With this, our first panel comes to an end.

On behalf of all the members of this committee, Minister, I really want to thank you for taking the time to appear before the committee and for taking questions from the members.

Now we will go to the officials. The clerk has already done the sound check, so we can proceed with our second panel.

Can I ask the officials to please turn on their cameras, so that we can begin our round of questioning?

Thank you, Minister.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, members. I sincerely appreciate your willingness to dedicate so much time and energy to such an important topic. Thank you, thank you, thank you: I look forward to seeing your report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you for being here as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I welcome our officials. We have Caroline Xavier, associate deputy minister; Pemi Gill, director general, international network; and Farah Boisclair, director, anti-racism task force.

We can go directly into our round of questioning. We will start with Mr. Redekopp.

Mr. Redekopp, you have six minutes.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to start with Bangladesh. The high commissioner appeared at this committee, asking for the country of Bangladesh to be admitted into the student direct stream. I specifically asked the minister on March 3 if he could make every effort to have Bangladesh enter into the direct stream program for foreign students, and his answer was that he was certainly open to it.

For the associate deputy minister, it's been 20 days or so. First of all, has the minister talked to you about getting Bangladesh into the student direct stream?

[Caroline Xavier, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

I haven't been spoken to directly by the minister with regard to opening the student direct stream to Bangladesh, but that does not mean it's not something being worked on in the department.

We have many streams we're exploring where that may be possible, and we have to ensure that the country would be able to meet the conditions required for the SDS. Although personally I have not heard—

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Can you confirm that Bangladesh is in the process of being considered for SDS right now?

[Caroline Xavier]

I cannot personally confirm it, but I can double-check...unless Pemi Gill has that information, and it doesn't seem that she does. No, I cannot confirm it to you at this moment in time.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you. That's disappointing.

I want to switch over to the Pollara report, and obviously the report of racism in the senior management ranks. In particular, it mentioned this. I know the minister just said that more needs to be done for senior managers, but my colleague, Mr. Genuis, asked if there were consequences, and we didn't actually get an answer to that question.

I just want to ask the associate deputy minister about the bonuses.

Can you confirm that bonuses were paid to senior management in IRCC for the last year?

[Caroline Xavier]

Yes, I can confirm that executives throughout the organization have received performance pay, as per the normal process of performance management.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

That's good.

Was anyone's bonus withheld or reduced because they exhibited racial bias?