Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 24th, 2022

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I just needed a quick answer. I'm sorry, but I don't have that much time.

The Pollara report exposed racism and discrimination within IRCC, and witnesses have indicated that there needs to be follow-up with individuals who shared those experiences. Will the department be undertaking to do that work, to ensure there's follow-up specifically with individuals who have identified racist experiences?

[Caroline Xavier]

We are not going to be able to follow up with those individuals specifically, because this was a volunteer approach and we do not know the individuals who were specifically met by Pollara. We did that intentionally, so that they did not have a fear of any type of reprisal or of truthfully sharing what they felt, so we cannot follow up specifically on those cases.

Having said that, every case that is brought to our attention we address with the tools we have in our tool kit with regard to reprimand and the necessary steps required to ensure that it is recognized as unacceptable behaviour to have racism and discrimination in our department.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Maybe what the department should do is undertake another independent study with respect to that, so those individuals can come forward, not fear reprisal and share in-depth experience as to where those comments came from. That's the only way you can actually get at the heart of the problem. I hope the ministry will undertake that work and do a further follow-up independent study in that regard.

[Caroline Xavier]

Thank you for that recommendation. I can tell you that further independent studies are planned as part of our strategy.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

If you can table for the committee, then, the timelines of when that further study will be done and the mandate for those studies, I would appreciate that.

[Caroline Xavier]

If you like, I could ask Farahldine Boisclair to give you a few of those details right away.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Maybe you could just table it, because I'm going to run out of time.

[Caroline Xavier]

Okay.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

A witness indicated that there's been little to no progress since 2019 with respect to processing for the caregiver stream. Can officials advise what is the magnitude of the backlog in the caregiver stream?

As well, IRCC does not have processing standards for these streams, so when can applicants expect their applications to be processed?

[Caroline Xavier]

As the minister mentioned, we have been given some funding to be able to really address the processing backlog we have. I can assure you that this is very much a priority for the department and we're working really hard to achieve progress in all of the business lines.

What I can tell you is that in April 2021 the department introduced this ambitious plan for processing applications from caregivers. Applications for nearly 6,000 persons, including both caregivers and their family members, were finalized by the end of 2021. We're going to continue to do some of that ongoing work.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes, but because many of those cases are in the backlog, when you say “6,000 persons”, that is not so many applications, because each family is more than one person. It doesn't actually give an accurate number.

Also, then, you're not indicating how far the backlog goes. Some of them have been on the wait-list for five or six years. People have been waiting for a long time.

Adding those numbers to it does not actually help provide clarity. All you're doing is trying to whitewash the reality of the backlog, and that's not helpful. Accurate and precise information is required.

What I'm asking now, though, is this: With the new resources, what is the standard processing time? How long do people have to wait to get their applications processed?

[Caroline Xavier]

Once an applicant has obtained 24 months of qualifying work experience, they have to submit the necessary documents. My understanding is that we aim to have this done within 12 months. That is the standard we're aiming for on these applications.

You're absolutely right, though, in your comment about the fact that the longer people stay in the application, it becomes aged, but that is part of the strategy to address the backlog—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Xavier, but the time is up for Ms. Kwan.

We will now proceed to Mr. Genuis.

Mr. Genuis, you will have five minutes for your round of questioning. Please begin.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the officials for being here today.

In some categories, whether someone is able to come to Canada or not is significantly impacted by determinations by the UNHCR. The minister has acknowledged that he's concerned about systemic racism within the department impacting determinations here. Do you have concerns about instances of systemic bias involving race or religion at the UNHCR? Given that those determinations impact who gets to come to Canada, what is being done to address that?

[Caroline Xavier]

We have an excellent relationship with the UNHCR, one that dates back for some time. They are a recognized partner not just for us, but for many like-minded countries in the refugee management stream.

At this point, I am not aware of cases that have been brought to our attention with regard to the possibility that they may have biases [Technical difficulty—Editor] the refugee management process. They have a clear definition of what a refugee definition is and they work with us to help us define Canada's priorities and needs. I'm not saying this may not exist; however, I'm not aware of it being a concern that's been raised. It's something, though—and thank you for the question—that maybe we can explore further.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm a bit surprised that you haven't heard that. This is a concern that is routinely raised with me in conversation with diaspora communities here in Canada.

Are you in dialogue with representatives of diaspora communities about the UNHCR process? Have you not heard these concerns? Have they raised these concerns but they not been received in some way? What's happening on that front?

[Caroline Xavier]

We engage regularly with various stakeholders who are part of our various business lines, including diaspora and other stakeholders who make up part of the support network, for example, in our settlement integration sectors. Ongoing stakeholder engagements are very instrumental parts of how we manage the way we do our business.

I cannot say that I have had this particular situation that you're flagging raised to my attention or to that of my officials. If it had been raised, it would be something we would address. If you have some examples that you think would be pertinent to share, we would welcome receiving them so we can follow up.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you. I will follow up, and I will ask certain communities with whom I've been working on this if and how they would like to follow up with the department directly.

Let me ask about the tracking of data. A lot of the conversation we're having here is about differential outcomes as revealed by country comparisons. That may not, though, show the whole picture in terms of differential outcomes on the basis of race or other criteria. You can't always identify race by country of origin.

What data do you collect in terms of the race of applicants and acceptance that would allow you to analyze other indicators of possible bias besides just country of origin?

[Caroline Xavier]

We recognize that data plays a very important part in terms of the management of our anti-racism strategy writ large, from both an internal and an external perspective. In particular, an area we're very interested in pursuing is the aspect of disaggregated data. This comes to the point you're making on how we might collect more detailed information from our applicants. At this point, much of the information related to that type of data is given to us on a voluntary basis. It is not a mandated element related to IRPA, so we have to be respectful of that.

As you said, it's hard to do a comparison one for one, because we have to take into consideration many aspects and criteria. However, disaggregated data, and the ongoing management of that data, is something that is part of the tool kit of where we want to improve.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay. If I understand correctly, you're saying the answer is no; you don't collect that data. You don't have that data, but you're sort of thinking about and possibly interested in doing it for the future.

Can I ask whether the same is true of religion? Do you have data fields to identify the religion of applicants, so that you can do those comparisons? Are you considering looking at disaggregated data on the basis of religion as well?

[Caroline Xavier]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] with regard to disaggregated data, but what I—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm sorry, could you repeat your response again? There was a bit of a technical problem.

[Caroline Xavier]

I was saying that we very much want to explore what we can do in the space of disaggregated data, but right now, much of this data is provided to us on a voluntary basis. At this point, it's not to say we don't have some of that information, it's just that it's not [Technical difficulty—Editor]

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You can't analyze the data—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. Genuis, your time is up.

We will now proceed to Mr. El-Khoury.

Mr. El-Khoury, you will have five minutes. You can please begin.