Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 29th, 2022

[Gurpartap Kals]

Yes, there is differential treatment on this aspect for the different employment streams by the feds and the provincial governments. Once a provincial government nominates a person for a work permit to come to Canada and join an employer, the feds take about two years before they finalize their decision on the work permit. Let's suppose there's an applicant from India. There's a refusal rate of about 83% in the New Delhi office. But if a person or an applicant is applying from Australia, the refusal rate is only 34%, as I mentioned in my opening remarks.

There is differential treatment. This is affecting not only the Canadian economy but also our economy in Saskatchewan, at home in Saskatoon. Employers are unable to find the employees they need for justifiable employment, and they want to grow their businesses.

So there are different ways, but the federal and provincial governments need to coordinate with international offices on how they can overcome the gap in processing times. There's a huge gap in how they treat these different applications.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thanks.

You mentioned, Mr. Kals, some of the employment issues in Saskatoon. Obviously when employers can't find the people they need to work in the jobs that they have this causes a great problem.

What is the detrimental effect on businesses and the economy in Saskatoon when these hurdles are put in place by IRCC? Can you describe that a little bit more, please?

[Gurpartap Kals]

Yes. Due to these hurdles, the effect on businesses not only in Saskatoon but all over Canada would be a very damaging effect on the economy of our country just due to high refusal rates, especially from certain countries. Employers would be unable to hire qualified employees for their workload, for the employment opportunities that they have here in Canada to grow their businesses. That would result in fewer jobs and a declining economy, not only for the immigrants, but for all over Canada.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

As I've been an MP for a few years now, I've done a lot of work reaching out to the newcomer communities in the riding, and a common thread that I find among newcomers is they really want to make Saskatoon a better place. Yet, they do face racism from the things that they've told me, and they often face it from the government.

You've worked with lots of immigrants, not just when bringing them into Canada, but actually once they're here in Canada. Can comment on some of the differential treatments that happen to them from the government once they're actually here in Canada?

[Gurpartap Kals]

On that note, in my personal experience I have not faced anything like that, where they would face racism while they are in Canada, but they do on their applications when they apply to immigrate or work in Saskatchewan or any other province in Canada. The racism exists in how they process their applications differently, depending on the applicant's region or ethnic group. I haven't seen anything like that at the provincial level, but I have been seeing this at the federal level.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Do you feel the racism that you are speaking about from some of these foreign offices is coming from the system that they're using? Is it coming from the specific people in those offices? Do you have any comment on that?

[Gurpartap Kals]

In the system itself they have started using technology to process the applications. I'm not into technology much, but I see the same people who are coding and embedding those codings into the system to process the applications. They may take into account those factors, and if so, this may affect the outcome of the application.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

One of those things that we've experienced, at least in Saskatoon, is the CBSA. They're the agency that carries out deportation orders for IRCC, and I've had to intervene directly in some cases where it seemed like they were not being reasonable. Do you have any experience with CBSA and how that relates to the IRCC and maybe racism that you might see there?

[Gurpartap Kals]

Fortunately enough I have not had any bad experiences with the CBSA working style up until now, but I cannot say that with the way things are going right now.... I may see a few in the future, and then I would like to comment on that again.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Excellent. We're done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

We will now proceed to Mr. Ali.

Mr. Ali, you will have six minutes for your round of questioning. You can please begin.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all witnesses for being here.

Ms. Rayale, you were not able to complete your opening statement. I think your time was up. Can you please complete that? I think there were just a few more sentences left.

[Dr. Siham Rayale]

Thank you for the opportunity. You're right. I had said most of what we wanted to get across, but we wanted to emphasize that given the challenges that IRCC employees are facing, and the marginalization and disturbing reports that have come out because of the Pollara report, we saw the need for ERGs, which are employee resource groups, as a way to ensure that the system can fix itself, and where employees at IRCC can also benefit from being in spaces that we consider safe for them.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Okay. That's great. Thank you so much.

My question is to Ms. Nadiya Ali. As you know, Pollara Strategic Insights conducted a qualitative survey at IRCC and found experience of racism in the department.

While IRCC has taken steps to address the issue raised by the Pollara report, in your opinion what further steps should the department take to address this issue?

[Nadiya Ali, Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Specialist, National Council of Canadian Muslims]

In terms of the jumping-off point for us, we do recognize the work that has been done with the recent release of the diversity and inclusion strategic plan, but in many ways, the work requires us centring on the folks who are experiencing it, who are on the receiving end of the racism and marginalization, and really thinking about what it means to centre on those folks.

Per our recommendation, employer affinity or resource groups are meant to do that work. They're meant to start thinking about what it means to centre on those folks who are on the receiving end of the racism and discrimination and what other solutions we can cultivate beyond what's been laid out in the strategic plan.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Either you or Ms. Rayale can jump in on this question.

What grounds or barriers are applicants facing that might contribute to their being denied visas? How can we find a constructive solution to address those differential outcomes?

Nadiya or Ms. Rayale, can you hear me?

[Dr. Siham Rayale]

We can. Thank you for that.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

I have limited time, so if you have no response, I'll move on.

Mr. Kals, do you want to respond to this?

[Gurpartap Kals]

Yes. As Ms. Rayale mentioned in her earlier speech, that Pollara report should become an annual report audit process within IRCC to address those racist issues in the system, and the setting of an ombudsperson who looks after the appeals that have been brought up or the problems that are occurring within the system so that somebody is there to address those issues and provide solutions to them.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Ali, are there any particular countries or areas from which, in your experience, applicants for immigration to Canada are most likely to be impacted by Islamophobia?

[Nadiya Ali]

My apologies. I think Dr. Rayale is best to take that.

[Dr. Siham Rayale]

I can certainly take that question. Part of our submission outlines how IRCC makes its decisions by sourcing information and websites from known Islamophobes. Much of that work targets Muslim-majority countries, including Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria and Iraq.

Fundamentally, our push is to suggest that whatever has come out of the Pollara report, the glaring experiences of racism as well as the racist comments directed at certain country-of-origin files impacts those country-of-origin files and many of them are Muslim-majority countries.

I should add Nigeria to the list as well.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Could you share any of your experience with the committee, any story of individuals who have been denied entry to Canada and have had an application refused, and commonly stated reasons for their application refusals?

[Dr. Siham Rayale]

Unfortunately, at NCCM, we don't work directly with immigration or refugee intake processes, but we do consultations with communities that are affected.

When we talked to the Afghan community, for example, when the 40,000-refugee commitment was made, we started hearing from the outset that there were processing and bureaucratic issues that delayed priority groups from being able to access it in terms of their claims being brought forth.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

We will now proceed to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.