Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 3rd, 2022

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I believe Mr. Genuis was going next.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. Genuis is not here in the room.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Mr. Benzen can take it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Benzen.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you, Chair. Thank you witnesses, and thank you, Brad.

One of the things we've heard from applicants is that some regions are underserved by visa application centres, especially in terms of getting their medical tests done. They have to travel to another country. They have to spend a lot of money and time. In some cases, before they get their application processed and before they get a meeting, their medical exam timeline has expired. They have to repeat this all over again, with additional costs.

It's my understanding that every country has doctors and clinics. Why is that we don't have a doctor or a clinic in every country certified or recognized to take these medical exams so that applicants are not having to spend all of this money and travel to other locations to get their medical exams done?

[Caroline Xavier]

Madam Chair, thank you for the question.

Our intent is very much to ensure that when people are submitting their applications, and in particular medical exams, they have access to certified panel physicians. We do aim to try to ensure that there's availability of panel physicians throughout the world. There are 577 panel physicians certified throughout the world, but to that point in the question being posed, they may not be in every country.

Having said that, when we certify a panel physician, we have to ensure that they will be able to adhere to the standards that we're looking for, and that may be the reason certain countries may not have panel physicians. The availability of those physicians has to exist as well for us to be able to certify them, and they have to be willing to be part of the network and adhere to the evaluation standards and processes.

It's hard to give a more specific answer unless speaking to a specific country. I just want to generally say that the intent is to minimize delays with regard to examinations and to try as much as possible to make panel physicians available throughout the world so that this is not an additional delay for applicants.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

If maybe it's because of COVID or other restrictions and the file cannot be processed in time, I'm just curious why the medical tests can't also be extended.

In my particular riding, I have a case of a family. It's not one person, so there are multiple costs. The first time it cost around $5,000 to get the tests done, and now they have to do them a second time. They only have 60 days now to get them done, and they're not sure they can get the money to do them. Why can't their medical exams be extended in those cases?

[Caroline Xavier]

Thank you for the question.

I won't be able to comment specifically on the case, but in general there have been times when we have been able to extend the medical exam expiration, and we've done that especially within the last two years because of border restrictions. We've applied public policies that permitted that extension to certain cohorts of applicants for that exact reason, in recognizing that it wasn't of their doing and that they needed more ability to have flexibility in the application process. It is something that is looked at and reflected on accordingly, depending on the case.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Thank you.

One of the things we heard in this process is the use of AI to triage simple files from complex files to handle the work more efficiently. There must be a decision tree process or chart that shows the steps that are involved to go in one direction or the other. Could you please tell us about the structure of the decision tree chart and the decision-making?

Also, could you provide to this committee that chart or some written documentation to show how that decision tree works? I think it's very important to be transparent so that we understand how the decisions are made to determine what becomes a simple file or a more complex one.

[Caroline Xavier]

Thank you for the question, Madam Chair.

Madam Lang does have some preliminary information to share related to the question asked.

[Tara Lang]

Yes. Thank you for the question, Madam Chair.

Absolutely, for each of our advanced analytic lines of business there is a decision tree chart, as it were, and a governance structure. It would be different depending on the line of business and the type of advanced analytics. We can take that back for sure and see what can be provided to the committee.

[Bob Benzen, Conservative, Calgary Heritage, AB]

Okay.

For each of the different lines—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Benzen; your time is up. We will now proceed to Ms. Lalonde for five minutes.

Ms. Lalonde, you will have five minutes. Please begin.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

First of all, I'd like to thank each and every one of you for being with us today.

I've been thinking a bit about the question my colleague asked earlier.

Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada data on the refusal rate for study permits indicate that people applying from African countries, particularly francophone Africa, have a much higher refusal rate than those applying from other parts of the world.

So I have three questions about this.

According to the department, what are the causes in this agreement that explain these refusal rates?

How is the department addressing this issue?

What steps, if any, is the department taking to reduce these refusal rates?

[Caroline Xavier]

Madam Chair, I thank the member for her question.

As my colleague, Ms. Lang, said, there are certainly significant refusal rates and there are various reasons for those refusals.

I will ask Ms. Lang to give you further details.

[Tara Lang]

Depending on the part of the country you are in, you are subject to the same regulations and the same laws when you are applying to come to Canada as a student. You are correct that right now we are seeing higher refusal rates from African countries for those destined to study in Canada.

In terms of what we are doing to examine this and where we can go from here, we are delivering unconscious bias training to all officers across Canada and the world. Regardless of whether they're situated in Africa or Ottawa, they will all receive that training.

We're also trying to support the review of all policies and programs to identify systemic racism barriers and disparate impacts on racialized groups.

I think my colleague Farah Boisclair spoke earlier about disaggregated data. As we learn more from disaggregated data, we can dig into issues we should be focusing on specific to certain continents, certain decisions, with Africa in mind, and not only Africa, but all countries that Canada welcomes.

We're also implementing mitigation plans to reduce racial disparities across programs and procedures based on systemic review, data mapping and external sources to identify and address bias in decision-making and risk management, including our automation practices.

As mentioned earlier, we conduct quality assurance exercises on a regular basis across all of our lines of business. We are committed to looking at the higher rates of refusal for African countries, and if there is anything we can do differently to determine if there is a reason behind that, beyond it simply being a just and law-based refusal.

[Caroline Xavier]

Madam Chair, let me provide a clarification.

I would add that this is the reason why we have introduced the direct stream for studies. It's another tool to ensure that if we are unable to do the necessary analysis and settlement in a country, there will also be a stream that will allow us to process study permit applications from certain countries more efficiently.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much for that response.

I might like to reopen the discussion, because I have a question about what you just said.

On that point, Ms. Xavier, are there any opportunities to see how we can develop best practices with other countries?

I understand the issue of financing and the banking system in these countries very well. However, are there any solutions that the committee could recommend to help us achieve goals that I think we all care about? We want a stronger immigration system and, in particular, we want to try to demystify this refusal rate prevalent in French-speaking African countries.

[Caroline Xavier]

Madam Chair, I'd like to thank the honourable member for her question.

We have observed that the applications are not filled out properly in some countries. That is not limited to African countries. They may actually be having trouble figuring out how to fill out the application.

We know that some countries have consultants to help people fill out the forms, but the level of service they provide isn't always up to par. In addition, the integrity of those consultants is sometimes questionable.

We have seen better results when consultants are on site to provide that assistance because the forms are filled out fully and properly.

That is something we are trying to improve by providing education through the missions and by talking to clients, consultants and all those who have a hand in supporting the process of immigrating to Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, but time is up.

This ends our second round.

We will now start our third round. Mr. Genuis, you have five minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I need to go quite quickly to get all this in within the time provided. Again what I'm looking for from officials isn't a specific answer in terms of the information, but just a confirmation that this information can be provided to the committee within the 30-day timeline.

Regarding course content and materials used for any anti-racism training or information sessions conducted for IRCC employees, are we able to provide that?

[Caroline Xavier]

Yes, Madam Chair, I believe that was an undertaking by another member. We are able to provide that information.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

Can you provide the current and historical processing times for each visa office and category from 2015 until now?

[Caroline Xavier]

Yes, we are able to provide that data. It may take us a bit of time because you're asking from 2015; however, we will endeavour to provide that information.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you.

Can you provide the raw and complete responses that IRCC employees provided to Pollara Strategic Insights for the anti-racism study? Obviously, that will be with personal identifiers not included.