Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 5th, 2022

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank our witnesses very much for being here today, in particular our friends Mr. Faizi and Mr. Khan.

Mr. Faizi and Mr. Khan, we would like to thank you for your services. We cannot even imagine what you have been through and what you are still going through today. We have already spoken in another context, as part of the Special Committee on Afghanistan.

Mr. Khan, I did ask you a rather sensitive question. I would like to ask it again today so that our analysts and all members of the committee can hear it. It is a sensitive question, but that does not diminish what the Ukrainians are currently experiencing, quite the contrary.

We have seen two different responses from IRCC on the Ukrainian and Afghan crises. You mentioned this in your opening remarks. We've seen, for example, that certain groups of Ukrainians have been exempted from biometric testing, and that the Minister of Transport and the Minister of Immigration have tried to put in place some sort of air gateway that is not quite adequate, but that is there nonetheless.

Mr. Khan, I'd like you to comment on the difference in IRCC's response to these two crises.

[Hameed Khan]

Thank you so much for this question. I remember you asking the same question in the Special Committee on Afghanistan.

The fact is that we have told the Canadian public, as well as the people at the IRCC, that as previous victims of the Russian invasion in Afghanistan, we sympathize with the Ukrainian people who are fleeing the war in Ukraine. We sympathize with any refugee who is coming to Canada. At the same time, what we're asking for is fairness. What we are asking for is a lack of bias.

It may be the region, skin colour or religion that differentiates us from the Ukrainians. We're asking for the same level of compassion and the same level of generosity from the Canadian government, especially from the IRCC, toward Afghans as they have shown to previous immigrants coming from Ukraine.

One thing that I want to point out here is that the honourable Minister Sean Fraser described the Ukrainians as coming under a temporary process, which will be a two-year stay in Canada—they might be able to work or something like that—but the Afghans are coming under a permanent program, and that's why it's taking so long.

I think that's completely wrong. There's no such thing as staying in Canada temporarily. Nobody will be kicked out after two years and told, “You go back to Ukraine,” unless they voluntarily choose to. The same will apply to Afghan families. I told the minister the same thing—that after two years, all those Ukrainians will be eligible for the same kinds of permanent residency, as well as citizenship and all of the other services that the Afghan refugees and immigrants are being offered right now.

We've been waiting for seven to eight months for application numbers. We've been waiting since the fall of Kabul, which was eight months ago. As of today, around 12,000 Afghans have made it to Canada, while for the Ukrainians, that number could soon go up to close to 100,000, based on the estimation we did from the minister's own numbers that he provided to the media.

You can say that there is a lot of bias in his statement, as well as in the attitudes of the IRCC and the Government of Canada toward Afghans and other minority groups.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Khan, thank you very much for your answer, which contained several elements that the analysts have certainly noted.

I will be brief, because I have barely two minutes left to speak.

Mr. El-Assal, you talked about IRCC's lack of transparency, about a certain opacity. I would like you to clarify two things.

First, how is it that the application of people who have already been selected by Quebec—who have received a certificate of acceptance from Quebec—is rejected by IRCC?

Is it not contradictory that one level of government accepts a person's application and the other level, the federal government, refuses to let that person in, even though an examination has already been done?

I would like to know your opinion on this.

[Kareem El-Assal]

Unfortunately, we haven't received a satisfactory answer from the federal government as to why it's taking so long.

As you note, Quebec does the heavy lifting in shaping the eligibility criteria, selecting the candidates and processing them. When they're handed over to IRCC, all that's left to do is the admissibility check, yet completing that component is taking IRCC longer than the time it needs to process other economic class candidates from start to finish.

We don't have a cogent explanation as to why that's the case.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You have no explanation for that.

Is it possible that IRCC's lack of transparency and opacity is the reason why we have no explanation for this problem?

[Kareem El-Assal]

I can't think of any other explanation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Your time is up.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That is fine.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I would remind all members and witnesses that all the questions should be directed through the chair.

We will now proceed to Ms. Kwan. You have six minutes. Please proceed.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for your presentations and for taking time to come to our committee.

My first questions are for Mr. Khan and Mr. Faizi.

I know that you, your colleagues and friends held a hunger strike here in Ottawa on Parliament Hill to put pressure on the government to take action so that you can bring your loved ones here to Canada expeditiously. At that time, the processing information was that 35% of the 300 applications have received the G number and 65% have not. Since the hunger strike, the government loaded even more additional paperwork onto you to fill out.

Between now and then, could you advise whether or not the government has relaxed these requirements for paperwork, which you already filled out in your first applications?

[Ghulam Faizi]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

I don't think they relaxed the paperwork. In the last week of April, we met the honourable Minister Sean Fraser again, and they started issuing new guest numbers. We can estimate that about 5% to 8% of the remaining applications received G numbers.

He also said he would try to see if more staff could be added in Pakistan to expedite the medical tests. We don't know yet. We also pressured for the resettlement assistance program, as he said it would be only for three months for our families. We said it should be the one-year support program for every refugee who comes to Canada. We don't know yet.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you for that.

Just for our committee's record, it would be really important if you could submit in writing to the clerk your requests of the government related to the issues you brought to the minister's attention in those meetings, so that we can ensure that the committee members incorporate what you're asking for as recommendations into our report.

Can we get that from you in writing to the clerk?

[Ghulam Faizi]

Yes, we can provide that.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much. I would really appreciate that.

One issue is that the government consistently says it cannot waive the documentation requirements. Without the documentation requirements, like the biometrics, being waived or being done here in Canada, you cannot get a single-journey travel document to go to a third country. If you can't go to a third country, then you can't get to safety.

On and on the loop goes. It's the egg or the chicken. Which comes first? As the government is trying to sort this out, your family members are in jeopardy. They are being hunted down by the Taliban. They're in hiding as we speak.

What would you say is of utmost importance? What is the most important request that you have for the government? Is it for the government to waive the documentation requirement so that you can do the biometrics in a third country, if possible? If that's not possible, would it be for your family members to do those biometrics here on Canadian soil once they are here safely in Canada?

[Ghulam Faizi]

There are two ways that can be done.

First, some of our family members can cross to Pakistan, which is a third country, on their tazkiras—their national ID—when they don't have passports, but IRCC keeps telling us that they will be unable to provide biometrics and they be unable to bring us to Canada if we do not cross to Pakistan on a legal passport and visa. Apparently it is difficult for families to get these from the Taliban, so they will face a problem.

Second, you asked whether they can bring the families here and then provide the biometrics. I don't know if they can do that, but we can help them with some family members who would be able to come to Pakistan if they co-operate with us.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

I'd like to turn this question to Mr. El-Assal, because part of the issue in the process of delay is the inability to get biometrics. This is now happening even in Ukraine.

What would you suggest the government do with respect to the requirements for biometrics for both Afghans and Ukrainians?

[Kareem El-Assal]

The low-hanging fruit is for the government to seriously explore collecting biometrics upon arrival. This issue has been raised with the government during the pandemic.

Typically two concerns are raised by the government. The first is that if persons are deemed to be inadmissible upon arrival, it can be difficult to remove them from Canada. The second concern that has been raised has been the potential lack of capacity among CBSA officers to process all these people upon arrival.

I think the way forward would be for the committee to continue dialoguing with the immigration minister and the Minister of Public Safety on this matter.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Ms. Veronis, I'll ask you the same question.

[Luisa Veronis]

I concur.

I don't have any additional comments.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

All right.

It is possible for the Canadian government to do biometrics. It has been done before on Canadian soil. If the issue is that CBSA is unable to process all of that, should the government then be increasing resources to CBSA instead of putting families in jeopardy?

Mr. El-Assal, go ahead.

[Kareem El-Assal]

I think that's a valid question that's worth exploration.

We have to remember that one of the three pillars of our immigration system is to support humanitarianism. In the case of Afghans and Ukrainians, money should not be an issue in terms of supporting these people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. El-Assal. The time is up for Ms. Kwan.

We will now proceed to Ms. Findlay. Ms. Findlay, you have five minutes. Please begin.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to everyone for being here today, both online and in person. We very much appreciate it. Mr. Khan and Mr. Faizi, it's good to see you again.

During the fall of Kabul, my understanding is that Ukraine sent a C-130 and took out of Afghanistan a flight full of people who were qualified for special immigration measures, SIMs, and brought them to that country for safe passage. This was long before the Russian invasion. Ukraine then stopped, because Canada would not make the commitment to get them from that country. Now there are Afghans who would qualify under SIM who are still there.

Can you confirm that, Mr. Khan or Mr. Faizi? Do you know that there are Afghans in Ukraine?

[Hameed Khan]

Go ahead.

[Ghulam Faizi]

I have heard from the news, yes, that there are Afghans in Ukraine, and they are stuck. I think they are trying to move to Canada, but I don't think they have received any help. We don't have direct connection with them, since we are the representatives of the former Afghan Canadian interpreters' extended families, which is about 4,800 people.

I don't know more than that.