Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 29th, 2022

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'll text you the information.

The last time you testified before the committee, you stated that the Safe Third Country Agreement was flawed. However, it's been with us for four years because we've been told for four years that it's being renegotiated.

You also told us that suspending the agreement would produce an influx of asylum claims. However, that's just a gut feeling. We have no studies to prove it would happen, and no one has been able to demonstrate with supporting documents that more asylum seekers would submit claims.

Don't you think that suspending the agreement for three months would show us whether or not the number of claims would go up?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

No. I don't think we should just try it. I think it is a potentially dangerous idea.

In addition to making sure—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Why is it a dangerous idea?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

—that we do this specifically with our partners on a bilateral basis, I don't believe that suspending the agreement is a good idea. Having an agreement that respects the safe third country principle is something we ought to do.

I have serious concerns not just about the people who make that last step of the journey to cross the border, but about the number of people who will be fleeing—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Migrant advocacy groups took on the government in the Supreme Court because they challenged the agreement. The decision was rendered in 2020, but the government appealed it.

Why do migrant advocacy groups, immigration lawyers and all civil society want to suspend the agreement, but the government does not?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting. The time is up.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Perhaps I will give a response to my friend after the meeting.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

For all the members and witnesses, all of the questions should be directed through the chair.

We will now go to Ms. Kwan for two and a half minutes.

Ms. Kwan, please begin.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

The minister advised that it is important for everyone to know the processing standards for their application, yet on the IRCC website, not every stream has that information in the public domain.

Will the minister commit to ensuring that for every single immigration stream, there will be processing standards on the IRCC website, so that people can know and plan?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

As a general rule, yes, I think we should, but with one caveat. There are certain instances when it's extremely difficult to be able to reliably project, because the allocation of spaces in the immigration levels plan will be far less than the global demand of people who would like to come out of those. That can make it very difficult to project with any reliability how long it ought to take. However, when we can make a reliable projection, we ought to.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Perhaps the minister can actually put that as a caveat on the IRCC website so that people know, because right now, for example, with respect to the processing of refugee travel documents and certificates of identity, there is no processing time timeline. People have no idea, even though they are desperately in need of trying to go back to visit loved ones.

I could go on with the lists, but I won't because I only have two minutes or something. Suffice it to say, that needs to be done. People need to know so that they can plan.

The other thing I want to bring to the minister's attention is this: For urgent processing, this is a real problem. The government indicates that urgent processing through the inquiry line will be dealt with within 48 hours. The reality is that it's anywhere between one week and 10 days, or more. I have multiple cases where people can't get urgent processing. By nature, the situation is urgent, but it's not being processed accordingly.

My question for the minister is this: Will he commit to ensuring that the urgent processing of cases is actually dealt with within the processing time of 48 hours?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

We'll do everything we can to get back to urgent processing timelines for urgent cases. I think for many reasons that we've outlined, some of the processes and challenges that we've had have slowed us down. I'll do everything I can to get back to a 48-hour timeline as quickly as possible.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

If that doesn't happen, what do we do? How do we deal with constituents who are in desperate need? What do we do? Where do we go?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

The reality of the situation that I work in.... Look, for urgent cases—to answer your question—if you're not able to get it through the MED line, please get in touch with me if you need to for the truly urgent cases.

I will say that the number of urgent cases coming through.... Given our commitments to resettle some of the most vulnerable people and given certain challenging life circumstances with such immigration ambition, urgent cases are coming through to me in larger numbers than they ever have before.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

I'm running out of time. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be rude.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry. Your time is up.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Oh, I wanted to get one more in.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We will now proceed to Ms. Rempel Garner for five minutes.

Ms. Rempel Garner, you can begin, please.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you. It's always a short time.

Ms. Fox, in the lead-up to the events of late July and August 2021, when did your department first become aware that Afghanistan was likely to fall to the Taliban?

[Christiane Fox]

We have always worked extremely closely with all of our security partners and with Global Affairs, so I think what the department did was actively participate in all the dialogue that took place in the lead-up.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Would you say that it was several months prior to the fall of Afghanistan?

[Christiane Fox]

I'd have to maybe turn to a colleague to see, as I wasn't there at the time. That's why it's hard to answer that question in terms of—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Just answer briefly, please.

[Christiane Fox]

We can, maybe, get back to you in terms of the time frame. I would say that—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Would it be safe to say that it was a risk probably a couple of months, two or three months prior to the fall?