Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 29th, 2022

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Mr. Dhaliwal will take over.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the officials again.

My first question follows up on what was brought to the attention of the minister earlier. There was a MED section of the IRCC that was very helpful to our constituents when members of Parliament were able to talk to them. I want to commend them for the work that they did, not only solving the problems for our constituents but, in fact, also mentoring our staff on those files. That was key because of the experience that I bring, because of my office being the busiest in all of Canada.

At some point in time, are you thinking of bringing that back so that MPs can have similar access to MED to help their constituents?

[Christiane Fox]

Madam Chair, the department absolutely recognizes that, because of the backlog and because of the impact on people, the client service aspect of our work needs to be re-emphasized, and it needs to be prioritized. I can only imagine, putting myself in the shoes of people who are applying to come here either permanently or temporarily, what that means for them in terms of the unknown.

There has been and there continues to be an emphasis on what that client experience can be, and that includes looking at putting information on the website so people understand what the backlog looks like and what it means for them, looking at client trackers so they can have a better sense of where their application is in the mix and then what types of support services we can put in place in the department to be able to respond either to MPs or to individuals who call us for information about their cases.

We have groups dedicated to things like conferences or humanitarian and compassionate needs, and, very recently, we've been working with a lot of you on setting up an MP system where the department would make time available so that MPs can come to the department with a set time and set dedicated resources to be able to work through the very challenging files that you all have to work through.

These are some of the elements we're trying to use to be more responsive to what we're seeing. The reality is that, because the department faces the backlog that it faces now, people go through a number of different channels in order to try to get information on their cases. They call the client centre. They try to call their MPs. They may do an ATIP request. It creates even more volume. As a department, we have a responsibility to get through the backlog and then look at the service standards and determine whether they're the right service standards going forward and how we modernize our systems.

The minister spoke about digitization and electronic applications. These are ways in which we're going to be able to be less reliant on paper-based systems and be a bit more focused on how to process in a more efficient way using technology. That's not done overnight, and I think that's why there has been an FTE growth to manage the volume that we're facing, but we have to think about what a modern system looks like, and we are dedicated to doing that.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you. I can tell you that that department was a key success, and I would love for you to consider bringing it back.

Let me focus on the half a million permanent resident targets in 2025. Could you talk about the department's long-term focus on economic growth, particularly when it comes to small cities and towns?

[Christiane Fox]

Thank you for the question.

Madam Chair, obviously, with the labour market shortage the country is facing right now, we have been extremely focused on economic immigration, but we also need to look at how we look at economic integration, where not everybody ends up in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver and Calgary. We have to think about what some of the regional programs are that have given us some success.

A good example of that, I would say, would be the Atlantic immigration program. I think I heard a stat when we were last in the Atlantic region, where some of the universities and businesses told us that for every 10 workers who exit the market, only seven enter. Programs designed to bring economic immigrants to those areas of the country are absolutely essential. The Atlantic immigration program was actually a pilot for five years or so, and then it matured into a full-grown program. How can we use those examples to look at rural and northern needs and how can we better match? I think that's an important lesson for us.

Most recently, in New Brunswick, we launched a pilot program with some of the big employers—Groupe Savoie, Cooke Aquaculture and Irving—to look at what their needs are in their region and how we, as a department, can work with them, the private sector and the province to actually bring workers to those communities that may not have the ability to sustain them from within their own populations. We have to be creative in that.

We also need to keep francophone immigration in mind in the context of our work. In the new year, we'll have the flexibility to be more creative about it, and that's going to be a great opportunity for us.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Can you talk about the gender-based analysis audit report that came out and the internal changes you have made based on that policy?

[Christiane Fox]

Thank you very much for the question.

It didn't take the AG; it was just internal to government departments. We have to look at how we apply GBA+ to our programs and policies. I think in our department it is absolutely essential.

We've been working very closely with our anti-racism secretariat within the department to look at not only how our internal practices are impacting our employees, but in addition to that—I know members raised issues like francophone African students—what some of the barriers are that exist because of programs or policies within the department. I think what the GBA+ lens can give us—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Ms. Fox, but the time is up for Mr. Dhaliwal.

We will now proceed to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for six minutes.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, you can please begin.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Fox, can you assure me that your department has paid no money to McKinsey since May 2019?

[Christiane Fox]

Based on the contracts and information we have, that's correct. We've had two contracts.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Can you remind me what the nature of the 2018 and 2019 contracts were?

[Christiane Fox]

They were for our efforts to transform and modernize the immigration system, including the implementation of our digital process labs. They didn't directly concern the immigration thresholds, but rather the innovation aspect and the practices we wanted to adopt within the department to improve our processes and policies.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

So there was nothing after 2019.

[Christiane Fox]

No.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

Can you also assure me that there's been no movement recently among the department's managers who worked on francophone immigration outside Quebec?

[Christiane Fox]

A number of employees work on that team. Personally, I'm not aware of any changes. I met with the team very recently and have not heard of any change of director or director general. Usually in meetings. I work more with the directors general, but I met with some of the managers and I didn't hear of any francophones leaving their positions to be replaced by anglophones.

As I told you, we have a new director of research, but he's part of our policy team. He's not directly connected to the team that deals with francophone immigration, although there is a unit within the department. This position is perhaps more akin to the ones you are referring to, but it's not connected to the team in charge of francophone immigration.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay. We will come back to it.

Since 2015, Statistics Canada has produced the Job Vacancy and Wage Survey, which collects data by industry and region.

Instead of requiring businesses to complete a labour market impact assessment every time, why not negotiate with Quebec to tie the temporary foreign worker program into the survey? There's definitely some overlap here. Don't you think it would be a way to remove an irritant and, more importantly, speed up the process?

[Christiane Fox]

Thank you for your question.

We are always looking for ways to work with the provinces and territories to avoid duplication of the work you mentioned, particularly in the case of labour market impact assessments.

I believe that Employment and Social Development Canada has been flexible with respect to the temporary foreign worker program, working closely with Quebec. The department has made some changes, including extending the period of time a worker can stay with an organization. In some cases, the department has eliminated the 6% rate. The department has therefore taken steps to try to address the situation.

We've also worked with Quebec, particularly through the international mobility plus program, which aims to bring economic immigrants to Quebec. This program was intended for permanent residents, but by working with Quebec, we sought to bring people in more quickly on a temporary basis and then have them transition to permanent residency. That way, these immigrants can arrive sooner to work for businesses in Quebec.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'm going to keep talking about the issue of temporary foreign workers. I don't know if you read the newspaper articles this morning. They say that employers are concerned about the delays. I imagine we get pretty much the same media review.

Canada and Quebec have an agreement on employment, the Canada-Québec Labour Market Agreement in Principle. Quebec knows its needs for its own territory, by region and by sector of activity. Why is the federal government asking employers for the same things over again when the provincial government already has the answers?

Why not just do away with the labour market impact assessments? It would not only speed up the immigration process, but it would also greatly reduce anxiety among employers and foreign workers, who are waiting to get their work permits to come here.

I understand that Employment and Social Development Canada has made some things easier, but this duplication makes no sense when we already have the answers in Quebec.

What are your thoughts on this?

[Christiane Fox]

We need to strike a balance: We must recognize the labour shortage and allow temporary foreign workers to play a vital role in the labour market to help businesses.

We also need to keep in mind that 1 million vulnerable Canadians are looking for work. We therefore need an inclusive process for those Canadians who can be active in the labour market.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I understand that and I recognize those 1 million vulnerable Canadians.

However, why wouldn't Quebec be more capable than the federal government at doing that work? That's what I don't understand. Quebec is already doing that.

Don't you agree that we should do away with labour market impact assessments?

[Christiane Fox]

I feel we should continue to work with Quebec.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay. That's well put.

In the spring, to great fanfare, Minister Fraser announced a program to allow Canadians and businesses to donate Aeroplan points to bring at least 10,000 Ukrainians to Canada.

How many people have come to Canada through the Aeroplan program and the Shapiro Foundation?

[Christiane Fox]

I don't have the exact numbers, but each month, we have about 300 plane tickets for Master Immigration Services. I can check into the exact number of people.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You say it's been about 300 plane tickets per month since the program began six months ago in June. So that's 1,800 people in total.