Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 8th, 2023

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal. I'm happy to make myself available. I think the work this committee does is extremely important.

Yes, I'm confident we can achieve the goal of resettling at least 40,000 Afghans by the end of this calendar year, but there are challenges that keep me up at night.

Securing safe passage for people who are still inside Afghanistan is extremely difficult. The shifting landscape we experience on the ground poses challenges that would have been beyond my imagination before I had the privilege of sitting in this position. In particular, we're dealing with people who are being hunted, persecuted every day and targeted by the Taliban on the basis of having tried to do good for their community, or by virtue of their service with the Canadian Forces or the Canadian government.

The challenges that exist, which are unique beyond this kind of persecution, include the changes at the border. After we had worked to secure a pathway for some of those destined for Canada—to make their way towards Pakistan, for example—the Taliban responded by insisting on exit documents that prevented people from leaving.

There are challenges for people in third countries who are unable to access the documents they need to leave, and for which we need to work with international partners. I've learned of families inside Afghanistan.... Some family members have a passport, but they don't want to leave without other family members who have not yet secured those travel documents. If you place yourself in the shoes of these families, of course they have reservations about approaching the Taliban to access a passport, given the fact that it's their persecutor who has the authority to issue those passports.

There are challenges at every turn. The biggest challenge I see is securing safe passage for people who are deep in the approval process but can't access a safe pathway to move throughout and outside Afghanistan.

Whatever the scale of the challenges, we're not giving up on these people. We're going to do everything we can to provide a pathway to Canada. It's a commitment we made to them and one we intend to make good on.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you.

Minister, many groups and settlement agencies here in Canada, some of them in my constituency of Surrey—Newton as well, are doing some great work when it comes to helping the most vulnerable who come to our land. What are you doing to ensure that Afghan refugees have the support they need to succeed when they start their new lives in Canada?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

First of all, let me take this opportunity to say thank you to the people who are engaged in settlement work across Canada. They are heroes, dealing with people who are often experiencing severe mental health needs and who have been through traumatic experiences. The level of support they need is extraordinary, in many instances.

We work with settlement agencies to ensure that they have the financial resources necessary to provide the services that they are expert in providing. Of course, there are programs that provide things like income support and temporary accommodations for people as they become established in Canada. It's going to take a long time for a lot of families to feel safe and whole in their new communities. I find that some of the best supports come not only from government or settlement agencies but also communities. Look at the role that private sponsorship has played in both the Syrian and now Afghan refugee resettlement initiatives. When we see Canadians coming together to provide support for our newest community members, it's extraordinary what personal benefits accrue to families who have that kind of wraparound support.

It can be challenging. I'll tell you that the capacity of some of the organizations we're dealing with is stretched pretty thin. They're doing so much heavy lifting, helping not only Afghans but also Syrians who continue to arrive, or more recently Ukrainians, who've been granted access to settlement services. It's not easy, but by contributing financial resources to help settlement agencies that are providing support directly to families, and continuing to assist Canadians who want to provide support for those they sponsor to come here, we can set people up to have a good chance at success here in Canada.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Minister, you mentioned Ukrainians. There has been a lot of confusion among the public when it comes to the difference between the situation of people who are trying to leave Ukraine and those attempting to leave Afghanistan. Could you briefly explain some of the differences?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Sure. I think I've given you a sense of some of the challenges from a resettlement perspective and the safe passage perspective that are unique to Afghanistan. The situation in Ukraine is also horrific for so many families who are facing a war of aggression, with missiles being dropped on their neighbourhoods. For many Ukrainians who sought to flee, they had access to the western border. They could access transportation networks once they got into other European countries. Within a day they could be in one of many countries where they were permitted to travel. Many of them had access to commercial flights, which they could access on their own.

There are parts of Ukraine where moving throughout the country is extremely difficult, there is no question, but when you saw—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Minister. The time is up for Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We will now proceed to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, you have six minutes. Please begin.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the minister and the people from the department for being with us today.

Minister, you may be expecting the question I'm about to ask you, but you are fully aware of the fact that Canada's Criminal Code currently has restrictions on Canadian humanitarian aid in Afghanistan. We spoke about this in committee and I introduced a motion on this matter that requires unanimous consent, which was blocked by your colleague Mr. David Lametti, the Minister of Justice.

Everyone appears to acknowledge a problem that needs to be dealt with. It's been a year now. Why has it not been dealt with and what are you planning to do for it to be settled by tomorrow morning?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I understand your question, but before answering it, I need to report that there's a problem with the volume on the interpretation channel.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Madam Chair, can I have my speaking time back so that I can ask my question again?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We will stop the clock. Go ahead, please.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

We'll start over.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, the issue is that the volume is just spiking on and off in my ear.

I nevertheless understood the question and thank the member.

The question is a very important one. I'd also like to thank the committee for its recommendation concerning the Criminal Code.

It's an important issue, as my colleague Minister Sajjan indicated previously. The government intends to advance a legislative solution to overcome some of these barriers, which I think will be important.

It's important as well that we recognize the unanimous nature of the endorsement from this committee to include such a recommendation. My hope is that when we come forward with legislation to solve this issue, it maintains the support of all parties.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I've been given the same answer for a year, Minister. But there is a problem with Canada's bureaucracy. The United States changed their legislation, as did European countries. The UN voted resolution 2615 to address the issue, and in the meantime, Canada has continued to give me the same answer: we're working on changing the legislation.

Do you believe that Canada's Minister of Justice is more powerful than the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and citizenship when the time comes to assist destitute people in danger?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

No. I think it's important that we recognize that ministers all represent the Government of Canada. We all work on behalf of the Government of Canada. When I advance a particular measure, it's not a measure of my own ministry exclusively, but a measure that's supported by the cabinet and government.

We need to move forward to clear whatever bottlenecks exist to provide humanitarian assistance and to potentially move people throughout Afghanistan as well.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Everyone is in agreement, but no one is taking action. It's unbelievable.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

That's not true.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

It's a good way to fuel cynicism.

Minister, with respect to managing the crisis in Afghanistan, the processing of many current files was put on hold at IRCC he because 15% to 25% of staff were assigned to processing Afghan crisis files. Needless to say, these had to be dealt with, because people's lives were in danger.

The Bloc Québécois made a proposal to the government last June, and it is also among the recommendations in the report. It was to establish a permanent emergency mechanism in the event of international crises like armed conflicts or natural disasters.

Are you going to implement this recommendation? Can you tell this committee that the emergency mechanism will indeed be established in the near future?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I support notionally the idea of the creation of some surge capacity within the department. I think getting the details right is going to be very important. This issue is going to be one of the subjects that we address as part of the strategic policy review that's just getting under way, which we hope to complete by May, to understand how we can protect surge capacity if we're going to continue to respond in real time to migration crises.

One thing that I have come to understand in this position is that Canada's system and, in fact, global refugee resettlement systems have been designed over many years to respond to protracted refugee crises to resettle people who've often been displaced for many years after they were first displaced.

There has been a change in approach over the past number of years. We are now trying to respond in real time to crises as they unfold, and I very much like the idea of building in permanent capacity to respond. Over the course of the next few months, we're going to be consulting Canadians to understand how to design such a system in the right way.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Fantastic. It just goes to show how the Bloc Québécois is a party of proposals.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you. It's a good idea.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

In connection with the Afghans file, following the tabling of the committee report, an article in La Presse reported on a situation in which some applicants found themselves, in countries like Pakistan and Uzbekistan, waiting for so long for their application to be processed by Ottawa, that their visa expired and they were returned to Afghanistan, where they are currently facing retaliation from the Taliban.

What do you or the department plan to do for these applicants whose visas have expired because of problems at the department?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

One of the challenges I see with responding to these crises in real time is that you're often reliant on third party partners who have their own rules about visa policy.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I don't want to know what happened, but just what you plan to do about it now.