Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 8th, 2023

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I'd be happy to carry on the conversation off-line.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. Ali, you can begin, please. You will have five minutes.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you for being here today, Minister, to share the progress of your work on the Afghan plan.

Minister, over the past few months I have had the opportunity to greet Afghan newcomer families arriving at Toronto Pearson Airport on chartered flights from various locations. Could you share with the committee the successes and challenges of providing support for the journeys of vulnerable Afghans from third countries and information about the assistance provided by various organizations?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I received a similar question from one of our other colleagues earlier in this conversation. I think I canvassed some of the challenges of moving people throughout Afghanistan. There are unique challenges for those who find themselves in third countries.

The kinds of challenges people run into sometimes depend upon the circumstances under which they entered that third country. I think about people who may have travelled to Pakistan, for example, who had a valid visa, versus people who crossed in an irregular way; both categories potentially qualify for Canada's immigration programs. The uncertainty that some people have if they don't have a legal immigration status in a host country on their way to Canada creates extraordinary concern for them and their families. We have other unique challenges when it comes to working with international partners to secure the ability to allow safe passage from Afghanistan into those third countries.

With regard to the second part of your question, I think that some of these supports that organizations provide.... There are so many heroes living in our communities. I think about Fariborz in Calgary, which has been responsible for providing services welcoming thousands upon thousands of vulnerable Afghans. There are people who are dedicating their lives to the well-being of some of the people who are fleeing unimaginable circumstances. We work with them to help fund the settlement activities that they provide, and we work with them to better understand the unique challenges that people who are living in these communities are now facing.

There were quite a few elements to your question. There's no shortage of challenges, but the successes, to me, are apparent when I meet people in communities. The real mark of success I think we'll observe half a generation from now. When I'm long retired from politics and I see a generation of girls who get to go to school, that's when I'll be able to celebrate success.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

We know from the Special Committee on Afghanistan's study and report that there are unique challenges to the Afghan resettlement effort, specifically regarding finding ways to help people exit Afghanistan. What has the government been doing to work with neighbouring third countries to ensure safe passage out of Afghanistan?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

The safe passage issue requires partnerships not just with states in the region, although it obviously requires that as well. It also requires work on the ground inside the country with third parties that can help move people through the country. This is an enormous challenge. We do not have a military or diplomatic presence on the ground in Afghanistan; moving people through the country remains the biggest obstacle to success, but we have the ability to work with third parties.

I hesitate to speak too openly about some of the current conversations we're having for fear that we may shine a light on some of the strategies we're pursuing, which could jeopardize the potential for success of those strategies. When we're looking to work with partners to facilitate not just the travel of vulnerable individuals to those countries but permission for them to stay long enough to complete whatever process may be remaining to secure chartered flights that may bring people from a third country to Canada, all of this requires constant conversations with countries in the region through which safe passage could be possible.

We have not put all our eggs in any one basket. If there is a state partner we can work with on the international stage in the region, we have been taking calls with them, taking meetings with them and working continuously in partnership to secure opportunities for vulnerable Afghans, not just to flee Afghanistan but to be safe temporarily in a third country before their onward travel to Canada.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Can you tell us if there has been any progress made by your department on the recommendation of the Special Committee on Afghanistan with respect to allowing Afghans to use other pathways, such as study permits, the economic mobility pathways pilot and economic immigration streams, without assessing their intention of returning to their country of origin?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

This is an extraordinary opportunity, in my view, to do good for additional vulnerable people. In fact, last night I was meeting with a group involved in private sponsorship that is trying to help us scale up the EMPP program. What's unique about this program, for those who aren't familiar with it, is that it provides a pathway to permanent residency for people who happen to be displaced, on the basis of their economic migration.

There are more recommendations that I want to dig into, including the potential to examine opportunities through the study permit system, but I'm out of time, Shafqat. Perhaps we'll get an opportunity to discuss that in greater length soon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Minister. We will now move to Ms. Kwan.

Ms. Kwan, you will have two and a half minutes. Please proceed.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'd like to go to back to the cap of 40,000. It's clear that they are people who served Canada, and they and their family members are at risk and in danger. They are not part of the system at the moment, because of the cap. Knowing that, will the minister lift the cap so that those applicants can get a chance to get to safety?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I don't have an announcement on a new target to make at today's committee hearing. To the extent that we can find complementary pathways that allow us to do more good, of course I'm interested.

Any time we're dealing with permanent residents who come to Canada, it's essential that we plan as part of our annual immigration levels plan or specific decisions that are taken through an official process of the government, so that we can work with settlement agencies toward capacity.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

Of course, the minister knew—or should have known—that there are these Afghans who served Canada and who, with their family members, could not get to safety before this moment in time. The minister has known this for a long time now. I have certainly written enough letters to the minister to fill a cabinet drawer full with respect to that. This is not new to the minister. That information was there before the minister, prior to the immigration levels plan that was released.

I bring this to the minister's attention because people's lives are at risk. Until it happens, these people will not get to safety—that is the reality—and the Government of Canada is giving them a death sentence. That's also a reality that they will face. I'm sorry to say that, but that's how people are being treated on the ground.

On a different question, I asked officials for information regarding biometrics. I have the information back to indicate that “3,486 unique applications, representing a total of 10,568 persons, have at least one person on the application waiting to have their biometrics completed as of December 23, 2022.” That means they can't get their biometrics.

Because they cannot get those biometrics, will the minister consider alternatives so that they can get to safety? Can they not do that outside of country and, for some of them, actually in-house when they arrive in Canada?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Let me address your first point briefly, and then answer your question directly.

One of the things that's important when we're talking about the number we're trying to resettle is that we have received expressions of interest from more than a million people who want to come to Canada—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'm sorry, Minister. They're not expressions of interest. I'm talking very specifically of people who served Canada and their family members.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I understand, but I think it's important that people understand the scale of interest from people who are seeking to take part in this program.

On your question about biometrics specifically, we've actually implemented a different security screening process that starts with enhanced biographic screening. We allow people to move through that process and complete their biometrics in a third country. We are now seeing that biometrics and security screening are not the bottleneck that they were a year and a half ago in this mission. It's proven to be somewhat successful, in my view. It ensures that we can have a rigorous security screening process pre-arrival, but it doesn't compromise the ability of a person to go through the process while they're still inside Afghanistan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

It remains that 10,568 people are still stuck in the system, so—

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

And nearly that many are actually still in Afghanistan—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry to interrupt.

We will now proceed to Ms. Rempel Garner for five minutes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm looking at an article that was originally published in the Edmonton Journal in November 2021, entitled “Afghan impostors cutting into line”. It talks about the special immigration measures the government put in place to evacuate persons out of Afghanistan, particularly persons who have had a relationship to the Government of Canada, and says that there may have been many people who were on the evacuation flights who actually were not approved under this program.

Has your department, Ms. Fox, done an audit of how many people were on these evacuation flights who had not been authorized through the special immigration measures?

[Christiane Fox]

Of course, as the minister has described, this was a pretty volatile environment. We can confirm that as we provided facilitation letters for our clients, the people we had relationships with, we contacted them about the purpose of the letter, the objective of the safe passage and their entry into obtaining a visa and getting on a flight—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

That wasn't my question. My question was, have you audited the people who got on the flight against the people who you asked to apply for this special immigration letter—

[Christiane Fox]

Yes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

—and whether or not they had that authorization?

[Christiane Fox]

Yes. A full assessment occurred when they got here, and they were on flights with visas issued by the Government of Canada.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Okay.

In this article, it talks about how.... This is a woman named Lauryn Oates, who is an NGO director. To give credit to her, she did a lot of work to get people out of Afghanistan, but she talks about a family of 14 people who were on an evacuation flight, who were not authorized.

Did you have any indication of something like this occurring?