Evidence of meeting #49 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghanistan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I'd say that we are working closely with the departments to make the changes required to allow us, on the ground, to do whatever we have to do to help the most vulnerable Afghans.
6:05 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Are you aware of the fact that the NGOs on the ground who are trying to help women, girls, and destitute people in Afghanistan, are unhappy about this response, which I've been hearing for over a year?
This answer, about how you are working to make changes, is the same one we've been fed for a year. Other countries around the world have managed to change rapidly, even though they too are democracies with parliamentary systems.
In your discussions with other deputy ministers, is there anyone who is getting impatient? Or at least tell me that some departments are unhappy about the inaction of the Department of Justice. Are you telling me from on high that everything's just hunky dory, and that these delays are only to be expected?
6:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Everyone is working on this and we're working with some key partners as well. The conversations you've had are also the conversations we've had with them. They understand our desire to resolve the problem.
6:05 p.m.
Bloc
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. Time is up.
We will now proceed to Ms. Kwan for six minutes.
Ms. Kwan, please begin.
6:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you very much.
To begin, can I ask officials to provide a briefing document to the committee on these facilitation letters? I'm looking for basic information. What are these facilitation letters? Where did they come from? Who issued them—i.e., which ministry is authorized to issue them? Who is authorized to distribute them? Who received them? What evaluation and eligibility considerations were given to the people who were in receipt of them? If the media's report is correct, how is it that, for example, a senator would have gotten hold of a facilitation letter for distribution, or that a former political aide got a letter for distribution?
You may or may not have these answers. I'm asking these questions just so that we know what the lay of the land is. You mentioned earlier that you know how many facilitation letters were issued from your department, and yet there are so many other ones that are out there. Could we get those numbers as well, so that we can have a sense of what is going on with respect to that?
These are just some of the questions I'm asking. If you could provide to the committee any other relevant information relating to the situation of the use of these facilitation letters, it would be much appreciated.
6:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Okay. Maybe I can start.
The facilitation letters—
6:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I'm sorry. Could I get that in writing to the committee? I have six minutes, and I have many other questions that I need to get into. This is just background information, really, that should be provided. It sounds like you already have the information at hand. Can you get this information to the committee by the end of next week, if that's reasonable?
6:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We will definitely give you the information. I will check with the translation and other measures to make sure, but I think next week sounds reasonable. I will confirm with the committee clerk.
6:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Just as a reminder to the members, all questions should be addressed through the chair. Thank you.
6:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I would like to actually go on to the next question.
On the issue around Afghans who have been stranded, we know that some of them are in Pakistan. Some of them have visas that have expired. Since the end of December of last year, the Pakistani government has been actively pursuing people with expired visas.
Since that time, how many Afghans have we brought to Canada to safety? Have any of them had expired visas from Pakistan? As well, how many flights are being put in place to continue to bring Afghans to safety? If you could give us a general average of how many flights we can anticipate are coming out, that would be appreciated as well. It would be useful to know how many flights and how many seats.
6:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Arrivals to date from Pakistan are 9,806. As I noted, about 43 charter flights have been organized since June 2022, but it's not limited to charter flights. We also have commercial flights. That's not just from Pakistan, but from Tajikistan and other neighbouring countries.
In terms of how many flights are being organized going forward, I think it would be very challenging to have specific data, as these details are still being worked out.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Can we get in writing to the committee the breakdown of those numbers of how many of those have actually come since December 31, 2022? If you have the breakdown of those, how many of them were from Pakistan? I am particularly interested in whether any people made it out of Pakistan, for example, with expired visas.
Is the department entertaining bringing people to safety with expired visas or even invalid visas, for whatever reason?
6:10 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Afghanistan, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Madam Chair, I might just jump in to add a couple of things regarding the question of visas and Pakistan.
The Government of Pakistan, like those of every country, has exit requirements, which have to be met by all foreign nationals who are departing. A valid visa is very important.
We're working very closely with the Government of Pakistan, through our high commission, to have streamlined processes for IRCC clients who have expired visas, so that we can facilitate having a renewed visa for them, which will facilitate their departure from Pakistan.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Individuals on the ground are telling me that if people who have an expired visa at the moment are caught, they would have to come up with money to renew their visa. On average, that is $700 U.S. per person. That is only for a short-term visa; it's not for a full year. If they have to look for a full-year visa, they are looking at over $1,000—like $1,200 or $1,500. Sometimes they are faced with a situation in which they have to pay money that is not authorized towards the visa.
People are faced with a lot of challenges, and of course they don't have money. These are people who are in hiding and have not been working. Coming up with that kind of financial capacity is almost impossible. Consequently, people are in real dire situations.
In the discussion with the Pakistan government and authorities, where there is some special dispensation being allowed for those whom Canada would bring to safety, how do you ensure that those without visas are not going to be caught out, and that they will be included?
Do you have a list of those people? Do you provide it to the authorities in Pakistan to ensure they are not going to be faced with challenges?
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I'm sorry. The time is up for Ms. Kwan. Maybe you will get an opportunity when we come back in the second round.
6:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
We will now proceed to Mr. Redekopp.
You will have five minutes. You can begin, please.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to return to Ms. MacIntyre.
You were answering a question from my colleague, Michelle Rempel Garner. It was: Did anyone flag that these visa letters could be fake?
You had just started answering and then the time ran out.
6:10 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Afghanistan, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Madam Chair, just to back up a bit, I would say that IRCC and Global Affairs, as we all know, were issuing facilitation letters, but these letters did not confer status on any person who received them. A full eligibility and admissibility assessment was done on all individuals before they would come to Canada.
It's just a protocol of IRCC. When an inauthentic document of any sort pops up in the system, there are multiple protocols in place to be sure that such documents are not being used in a way they're not supposed to be. For example, these letters were not meant to facilitate boarding a flight to Canada. They were not meant to be a visa to Canada.
When you see any document that someone has attempted to use for a reason that is not intended, there is a flag in the system. That's just a protocol.
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
Recommendation 26 of the report speaks to the role of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees and specifically asks that IRCC waive the requirement for Afghanistan.
We heard testimony during our backlog study about the UNHCR and its ineffectiveness in dealing with certain religious or sexual orientation minority groups in countries such as Pakistan. In the government response, there is an acknowledgement of the ineffectiveness of the UNHCR program when it comes to Afghanistan.
Has IRCC engaged in talks with representatives of the UNHCR, either here or in Canada, about efforts to reform this organization, Ms. Fox?
6:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
It's important to the question around how do you effectively respond. Through the humanitarian stream of our programming, we have been able to work with a number of organizations that have secured the safe passage of LGBTQ2+, journalists, politicians, etc. We are in very close contact with the UNHCR for a lot of our work. We continuously try to improve the work that we do together in a partnership.
The answer to your question is yes, we are in touch with them, and yes, we are always looking at ways to be more nimble and to be more responsive to a particular crisis.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK
I'm going to talk a bit about some local groups.
I mentioned to the minister the group called Nest Saskatoon. They're working to bring Afghans to Canada. They submitted applications. They were told that the slots had been filled. They sent out applications the very next day, on October 17, 2022.
Was there a quota for approved applications for each province and territory?
6:15 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
It was not a quota by province or territory. We definitely have data in terms of the settlement efforts by province or territory.
What I would also note, as we have done, is that we continuously look at innovative ways to respond and pivot. That's something the department has done continuously. One way we have done that is through the groups of five sponsorship, where 3,000 places were allocated to people for whom we waived the requirement for an UNHCR refugee determination. That allowed a little more flexibility for groups who wanted to take part in welcoming Afghans.