Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 22nd, 2023

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Okay, so there is an internal investigation going on at Global Affairs Canada.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

In order to answer the civil case investigation, of course Immigration and Global Affairs are participating and doing their own investigation. You get my point.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. When will the results of that investigation be complete?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

It's linked to the civil case.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Okay, so it's not an investigation separate from the case in front of the Federal Court?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

It's part of what is happening right now. Your colleague shed light on the issue.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Yes, it's tied to the Federal Court case. It's not a separate, independent investigation.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Maybe it's the lawyer in me, but it's not technically a “civil” case. It's much more an administrative law case.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Yes, okay. Thank you for that answer.

I want to go back to the lessons learned, which is really what we're meeting about today—the lessons learned from the fall of Kabul and the evacuation of Afghanistan. I'm astonished that the government's view, in its response to recommendation 2 of our committee's report, which was a recommendation about better interdepartmental coordination to ensure a better response in future crises, is that that interdepartmental coordination through the interdepartmental task force was “an effective and efficient working relationship”, when all the testimony in front of the Special Committee on Afghanistan said otherwise.

I'm wondering if you share the assessment that the interdepartmental coordination was effective and efficient during that time of the evacuation of Kabul.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

As I said, I can't turn back the clock—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I know that.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

—and at the same time, I was not privy to what was happening, as you know, but my goal is to make sure that we're able to deal with issues as they come up in very difficult situations, in very dire times, in a way that—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I understand that, Minister—

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

—we can do a good job.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

—but if we're not willing to admit to our mistakes, then we cannot improve.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

No, Michael, I'm not seeing it in that sense.

Listen, it was a messy situation—on the ground it was—and it was the case for all NATO allies. We were working 24-7 on this. As an MP, I don't know if you are like me, but we were sending names and we wanted to make sure that these Afghan people could get out of Kabul.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I appreciate your answer, but if we're not willing to admit to what went wrong, then we can't fix it.

I'd like to quickly ask you a question about some breaking news that relates to foreign interference.

Your department is actively involved in countering foreign interference from Beijing. Global News has reported that one of the members of the Liberal caucus secretly advised a Chinese diplomat in early 2021—

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

On a point of order, Madam Chair—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

—to delay freeing the two Michaels.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Chong. We have a point of order.

Go ahead, Ms. Kayabaga.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think the minister has taken her time to be here today to answer questions on Afghanistan and I think the conversation that we're having right now is not relevant. If we can get back to the matter of the day....

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

We have broad latitude.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

We want to talk about Afghanistan—or take it outside.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Kayabaga.

Mr. Chong, the floor is yours. I request that we deal with the issue that we're talking about now.

I'll start the clock. You have 45 seconds left.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Okay. I'll frame this, then, in terms of....

My understanding is that we generally have broad latitude to ask questions. It's a question that pertains to foreign affairs. It's a question that pertains to the government's position in the Indo-Pacific region. The Indo-Pacific region concerns not just Afghanistan but the increasing presence of the PRC in Afghanistan, and it is in Afghanistan, frankly, because the western alliance vacated Afghanistan in such a disastrous way in August 2021.

Again I ask the question. Global News is reporting that Liberal MP Han Dong secretly advised—