Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 22nd, 2023

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Thank you for that very good question.

At the time, I was not yet Minister of Foreign Affairs, but I was part of the group of ministers who coordinated the response to bring 60,000 Syrian refugees to Canada.

I will be happy to say more about that subject later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you. Your time is up, Mr. El-Khoury.

We will now proceed with Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for two and a half minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, I am going to ask you a question that may be a little out of context, but it is of considerable interest to me.

You rightly denounce human rights violations by the Taliban, and in fact I congratulate you and thank you for that. We have to stand up in the face of that and denounce it at every opportunity. That said, I am thinking of other human rights violations occurring in other jurisdictions. We know that the Qataris, for example, are helping the Government of Canada send its messages to the Taliban, this being diplomatic aid that they offer us.

Is that aid the reason why the Government of Canada has never, in any forum, publicly denounced human rights violations in Qatar, particularly when it had the opportunity to do so during the last World Cup?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I'm sorry, my dear colleague, but I am going to have to correct what you said.

We raise human rights issues all the time in all our international relations. That has been part of Canada's foreign policy for decades now, and it...

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

So you are prepared now to denounce human rights violations in Qatar.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Whenever I have conversations with my colleagues, whether bilateral or multilateral, I definitely raise human rights issues.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I am inviting you to do so publicly before the committee.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

It goes without saying that we raise human rights issues. It goes without saying that we work with the government of Qatar to ensure...

First, Qatar is a NATO partner. All NATO countries work with Qatar.

Second, Qatar is working with us to bring Afghan refugees here. I think we can do both.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay, but—

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Canada is capable of engaging diplomatically, because that is what it does to achieve its national objectives. At the same time, since our foreign policy is based on values such as defending human rights, certainly that is what we want.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You have just done exactly what I said you would do: you are unable to publicly denounce human rights violations in Qatar, because it is a NATO ally and you have diplomatic relations with Qatar. You are unable to denounce the human rights violations by the governing regime in Doha that have taken place in Qatar.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I am telling you that we have concerns about that country—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Do you denounce the human rights violations in Qatar?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

My answer is this: I am telling you now that we raise these issues all the time. Not only do we raise these issues, but the UN has a process in place for all countries. When Canada has concerns about a country relating to human rights, we raise those concerns in the periodic review by the Canadian Human Rights Commission—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You don't do it the same way with the Taliban and Qatar. They are two different things.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

We have raised these issues for Qatar and we also raise them for other countries.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

And yet you have not done that. You have done two different things with the Taliban and Qatar.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I have given you a clear answer to your question.

I think that comparing Qatar to the Taliban—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

The time is up for Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

We will now proceed to Ms. Kwan.

You have two and a half minutes. Please begin.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'd like to turn to the issue of helping get people out of Afghanistan. Many people are stuck.

I maintain that the government needs to lift the arbitrary quota. There are many people who were funded by GAC, the Canadian government, who have been left behind. I have, literally, spreadsheet upon spreadsheet of people who followed the government's instructions to try to get an application and to get a referral and could not do so, and they are in a dire situation right now. I'm going to set this aside for a minute.

One of the issues, of course, is getting people out of Afghanistan, as well as some who have made it to a third country, such as Pakistan. Pakistan issued an edict back in December of last year to say that if you have an expired visa, you will either be arrested and put in jail or sent back to Afghanistan.

From this perspective, with regard to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the work that the minister and her officials are doing, what are the minister and her department doing to work with these third countries to allow for people to get out?

If they don't have a valid visa, they're not going to get an exit visa either. What work is being done to alleviate that problem?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

There are two answers to your two questions.

Jenny, I'm a very pragmatic person. My goal is to get to 40,000, and I'm convinced that we can get there. If more work needs to be done, we will do more work. I will work with my colleague, the Minister of Immigration, to see what can be done. Indeed, to your point, the situation in Afghanistan will continue to be dire.

The second answer to your question is.... I think your question is very relevant. The issue right now is that Afghanistan is a really difficult country for us to operate in. We don't have an ambassador right now. There is nobody at our embassy. The issue we have is, indeed, safe passage.

That's exactly what I do when I deal with Pakistan, when I deal with Qatar, when I deal with the UAE and when I deal with Kuwait. How can we make sure that Afghans leaving Afghanistan who have an opportunity to come to Canada can come to Canada? That's my job, and that's what I do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan. Your time is up.

We will now proceed to MP Chong.

MP Chong, you will have five minutes. You can please begin.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to follow up on my colleague Madam Rempel Garner's question. In your answer to her, Minister, you indicated that you weren't able to respond to her questions because the matter was under investigation. Are you referring to the civil case in front of the Federal Court, or are you referring to another ongoing investigation?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I'm referring to the civil case, and I'm referring also to the fact that, internally, there is an investigation happening.