Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 5th, 2023

[Nicole Girard]

Madam Chair, normally for a regulatory process that takes about a year to 18 months, we would have the responsibility to prepare the regulatory package for final publication some time after the summer recess. Those would be typical timelines. I can't say for certain on this particular proposal, but those would be notional timelines.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Girard.

Mr. Redekopp, you have the floor.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think we're probably ready to vote on this one, but I want to mention that we have an amendment after this one, for your reference.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I have Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to begin with a short preamble before putting my question to the officials.

What we're seeing now is the Conservative Party MPs asking really a lot of questions. They may be legitimate, but I wonder. The Conservatives are claiming to be the party of common sense and sound management of public funds. Not only that, but they're saying they will soon form the next government. But we are using House resources right now. Don't the Conservatives think we should avoid spending this money, particularly since, if they form the next government as they say they will, they could amend the current bill, which they feel is imperfect?

I'm getting to my question for the officials now.

Do you think the people whose circumstances would be stabilized as a result of this bill are keen to see it adopted, or that they would like us to debate it endlessly, as we are currently doing?

[Nicole Girard]

At the department, we are very cognizant of the fact that lost Canadians, as has been pointed out repeatedly by several members of the committee, are very eager to see this bill move forward so that they can gain or regain their citizenship.

As government officials, we always answer questions with a view to supporting the committee so that it can complete its study of a bill as quickly as possible.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

If the bill is adopted as it stands, will—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. Debate is happening on the amendment—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Yes, you're absolutely right, Madam Chair. If the amendment—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

—not on the bill. We have an amendment on the floor. Could you please keep your question related to the amendment?

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

If the bill is adopted without the amendment we are currently debating, then if another party were to form the government after the next election, would it be able to amend the bill by reintroducing this amendment?

[Nicole Girard]

I don't want to comment on what might or might not happen following an election. But I would simply like to remind everyone that Parliament can always legislate in one way or another.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I have Mr. Redekopp.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I just needed to point out that, again, we're here because of the requirement set by the government. We are not here at a normal time—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. Redekopp, would you like to speak to the amendment? You have already raised it, and it has been heard.

We will go to a vote on CPC-6.

(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Go ahead, Mr. Redekopp.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have an amendment that I would to move, to make a new clause 1.4. It is that Bill S-245 be amended by adding after line 18 on page 1 the following new clause:

1.4 Section 24 of the Act is amended by adding the following:

24(4) The Department of Citizenship and Immigration shall not create an online web form for the oath of citizenship to be completed.

I have things to say about this. I'm just wondering if everybody has this amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

The amendment has been emailed to all the members. Please look into your P9s. All of you have it. The hard copy has been provided to the officials.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

This amendment is, I guess, taking a different approach to this, in wanting to not have an online web form for doing the oath of citizenship. This does not preclude having some sort of Zoom option, I suppose, and it certainly doesn't preclude having an in-person citizenship ceremony. It really is coming back to that same issue that we keep hearing about over and over again from constituents: that having the online web form method to do the citizenship ceremony is just not right, for a variety of reasons.

The first one is that it's good to be in person. It's good to be with the people who care about you, the people who sometimes travel to be with you so that you can actually experience the joy, excitement—sometimes tears—and thrill of becoming a Canadian citizen. We know that when that is done online, when you're sitting there, what this is specifically going after is just the simple click, because it takes away all the excitement of that moment. It takes away all the ceremony that would be there.

Another concern we have with this is on security, because when someone is behind a screen and clicking, we don't really know who that is, where they are or what part of the world they're in, or if there's some sort of fraud occurring during that time. These are all things that I think would be very hard for any kind of system to manage properly.

There are all kinds of reasons that doing it this way is a concern. We've heard about the potential for there to be a problem in rural Canada with Internet access. Just being able to actually get online to do these things that way is a concern.

I don't know if my colleagues have some thoughts on this, but those are some of the reasons we want to do this. I'll throw this out for debate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I have Mr. Mazier.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Just to echo Mr. Redekopp's comments on the whole getting away from the ceremony part of it, ceremonies are supposed to be a time of celebration with humans, not online.

I don't know how much thought was put into this kind of development. I understand the streamlining thing. I think it makes a lot of sense, but to what end?

I'm not seeing a lot of thought being put into this. It's like, here, we checked off the box and we can be a citizen and all of that, but how fast will this happen? What are we taking away from this, besides the whole ceremony part?

To understand this a bit better too, I'll go back to this: What's a person to do if they don't have any connectivity or anything like that? Are they expected to travel in right now?

I guess that's a question for—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Ms. Girard.

[Nicole Girard]

Madam Chair, prior to the pandemic, when ceremonies were in person and when there were not virtual options, people did have to travel in, depending on their location and circumstances, and on where the ceremony was being offered.

That may still be the circumstance today, although as discussed, there are many virtual ceremonies available today across the country to accommodate different circumstances. That would be less of an issue under current circumstances, because that option became available during the pandemic.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Mr. Clerk, could you please take the vote on CPC-7?

(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 4)

Mr. Redekopp.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have an amendment I would like to make. This would be new clause 1.4, that Bill S-245 be amended by adding after line 18 on page 1 the following new clause:

1.4 Section 24 of the Act is amended by adding the following:

24 (5) Should a person be unable to attend an in-person citizenship ceremony, the Minister may waive this requirement only on compassionate grounds and a virtual option should be offered in those circumstances as requested.

That's the motion, and I have things to say about it, but we will take a minute just to make sure everybody has it, including the officials.