Evidence of meeting #8 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was subamendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Wait one second. Let me clarify with the clerk.
In regard to the will of the members to proceed with the witnesses, everyone will have to agree that we adjourn the debate and take it into the in camera portion after we are finished hearing from the witnesses.
Do we have the consent of all the members to adjourn for now and then get into debate on this motion in the second part, which will be an in camera meeting, after we hear from the witnesses?
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
On a point of order, Madam Chair, I don't think it would be appropriate to consider this motion in camera. I don't have a principal objection to the timelines, but surely we could continue to debate this motion in public after we've finished hearing from the witnesses.
Provided that there was no objection from colleagues, I would be supportive of continuing with the witnesses but resuming consideration of this motion in public.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
If that's the will of all the members and we have consent from all the members, we can proceed with the second round of questioning. Based on the time we had, Mr. Hallan has five minutes, and then we have Ms. Kayabaga for five minutes, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for two and a half minutes, and Ms. Kwan.
We can end that and the witnesses can leave, and we can continue the public part of the meeting and debate this motion.
Is that the will of all the members? Okay. That's good.
We will now proceed to Mr. Hallan for his five-minute round of questioning.
You can begin, please.
Conservative
Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to my colleagues for that discussion as well.
This question is for both of the witnesses today. There's a lot of talk about the recognition of foreign credentials, and also the transferring of credentials for students for what they have already completed.
Do you guys have any recommendations, or do you see any issues that happen with refusal rates sometimes, because they don't get recognized for what they have done in their home country?
Managing Director, Canada and Deputy Executive Director, World Education Services
I guess I can respond.
Can you hear me?
Managing Director, Canada and Deputy Executive Director, World Education Services
I'm getting an echo.
Liberal
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Surrey—Newton, BC
Also, Madam Chair, when a member moves a motion, doesn't that get taken out of the five minutes allocated? I have previously noticed that this is usually the case.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
On that point of order, the committee had agreed unanimously to resume at this point, so that would normally be the procedure. However, since we took a few minutes—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
In regard to the time, I'll let Mr. Dhaliwal finish, and then we will proceed to Mr. Genuis.
Mr. Dhaliwal, with the consent of the members we will be proceeding to the debate of the motion, so I decided to give the time.
Mr. Genuis.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
I apologize, Madam Chair. You made the point precisely.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you.
Can everyone hear? Can we resume? Is interpretation working?
You can begin, Ms. Madhany.
Managing Director, Canada and Deputy Executive Director, World Education Services
In terms of foreign credential recognition, at World Education Services, in fact, we accept verified documents. As a result of COVID, we now get a significant number of credentials that come through digitally from institutions when we get individuals from our top three countries: India, Philippines and Nigeria.
With respect to international students, generally, as I indicated during my remarks, the majority of international students at the undergraduate level come through recruitment agents and they come directly to the post-secondary institutions. World Education Services will see international students after they have finished their study, when they want to either get licensed or go back to school. At that point, we do get their information directly from the institutions.
I will leave it at that in terms of getting the credentials. We do it digitally. We get verified documents and we work directly with the post-secondary institutions in their home countries.
Chairman of the Board, Réseau des cégeps et des collèges francophones du Canada
I'm not sure my information's complete, since the systems we use in and outside Quebec are very different. So I don't have a precise answer to that question.
Conservative
Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB
Thank you.
Mr. Dornier, in your remarks you said that your organization tried to reach out to IRCC. Can you elaborate a little bit more on that? Have you tried to reach out to them to give more recommendations, or can you give any information to the committee?
Chairman of the Board, Réseau des cégeps et des collèges francophones du Canada
I'll ask the executive director of the RCCFC to answer that question.
Executive Director, Réseau des cégeps et des collèges francophones du Canada
Thank you, Mr. Dornier.
Yes, we put that question to our members, and they told us they had contacts with IRCC representatives and embassies but that those connections weren't very reliable and were in fact somewhat erratic in certain respects. That's why reliable and permanent communication channels must be established and why we mustn't settle for random opportunities to speak to people.
I think that's one of our members' important needs. Furthermore, one of the recommendations we made was that a meeting be organized with IRCC as soon as possible to establish those lines of communication. Currently, IRCC and the post-secondary institutions go their own ways, but it's important that they come together.
We know that won't necessarily happen immediately after the committee has completed its work because we know that takes time, but we're asking that the meeting be held as soon as possible. The present situation undermines our post-secondary educational institutions, particularly college-level institutions, which wind up on the losing end. Ultimately, it's francophone immigration that suffers. So it's important that this communication channel be established immediately.
Conservative
Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB
Just to continue with that, is there something that...? This is your time. You can give us some of those recommendations. Would you like to take a bit more time to pass along what you'd like to say?
Executive Director, Réseau des cégeps et des collèges francophones du Canada
There was the concept of accountability. The chairman of the RCCFC board mentioned it earlier, and I think it's key, because the situation is urgent. We suggest that IRCC report on at least an annual basis, with detailed explanations about placement rates, country of origin, reasons most frequently given for refusals, and so on.
The process needs to be systematized because at the moment, it's a bit random, we feel. That's why very clear guidelines are needed.
Chairman of the Board, Réseau des cégeps et des collèges francophones du Canada
The perception is that decisions are made arbitrarily, and this perception needs to be corrected.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
I'm sorry for interrupting. Time is up.
We will now proceed to Ms. Kayabaga.
Ms. Kayabaga, you have five minutes for your round of questioning.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would like to start by thanking our guests today for taking the time to speak to us in our committee.
My first question is for Mr. Dornier.
There have been ongoing discussions with various witnesses, who have presented several items of information, including the fact that 60% of francophones are in Africa.
We are in the process of preparing this study on refusals of African students. Can you comment on the fact that there are not enough visa offices in West Africa in key locations capable of facilitating the process for African students to come to Canada?
Chairman of the Board, Réseau des cégeps et des collèges francophones du Canada
It has been a problem in several countries, where the consular diplomatic services responsible for providing official documents are difficult to access. Applicants must report in person and some electronic records are required, but the process can be difficult.
When we do our recruiting, we no doubt complicate the lives of student applicants, particularly in Africa, because not only must they go to the official locations to start the process, but sometimes go back two or three times. It's complicated enough to do it once, and even more so if they have to go back.
It's definitely a problem. It is very rigid, restricted and not very flexible with respect to the measures in place to facilitate the administrative process for students in these situations.
Liberal
Arielle Kayabaga Liberal London West, ON
Would you agree that this would be a good measure to adopt in order to achieve our ambitious objective of increasing francophone immigration to Canada?