Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2023

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

On Ms. Kwan's ask, absolutely, I agree with that, as long as everybody else can also submit written questions to both generals.

Very briefly on this, we heard from Major-General Prévost. He has just said that during this Israeli evacuation it did take several days before it got off the ground, that he was in fact talking to the CDS, the chief of the defence staff, but also to the chief of staff to the minister when organizing, preparing and doing logistics on it—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Kmiec, they are not here. I just don't.... You understand that I—

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I'm just—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

It's not fair to talk when they're not here—

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

It's okay. I'm just relating, Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Can we focus on the motion, please?

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

That's where I'm going, because I'm saying that just in this current evacuation they're very clearly stating that they talked to the chief of staff. In the previous evacuation, we don't know, because we don't have George Young here to explain to us. That's, Chair, where it's connected. That's why it's so important to bring in George Young.

During the testimony we just heard about what happened in Afghanistan, we were told—this is a quote—he would be “putting it into the system.” That was the email. The question is, what system was that? The only person who will know what that system was will be George Young, because he was the chief of staff to the minister responsible.

From the emails, we can tell that many things were being routed directly through the chief of staff. Major-General Prévost just said that troops on the ground were using a list provided by IRCC. Then, the question we have to ask the chief of staff becomes, “Is that the system that's being referred to in the emails?” That's the only person who will know exactly what the system was.

I'll also add just as a final point that this is a department I used to work for as an exempt staffer. It would be highly irregular, almost impossible.... I cannot believe that facilitation letters would be sent by the chief of staff in an email to a senator to tell them to “try it”. I cannot believe that something like that would be done. I was an exempt staffer there. There is no way that something like that would have been okayed, but of course, if the minister wasn't reading his emails, he wouldn't know either.

I support the motion. We should proceed to have Mr. George Young present to this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

Mr. McLean, you're next.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I took Ms. Kwan's comments very seriously also. I hope we can get to the bottom of this.

As you know, Mr. Chair, I'm new to this committee, so there's no history here. However, I'm not new to the Afghan plight and the number of Afghan requests coming into my office to get these people to safety. It was enormous in the summer of 2021 and subsequently too. The questions were asked: What is the process here? How do we get through this?

What I've seen in this paper here and heard in the testimony is that there seems to be some kind of back door offered by somebody that wasn't clear on paper to everybody else. I do think we need to get to the bottom of it. I don't know why getting those answers is troublesome at this committee, because in understanding where the political influence may be when working through a crisis like this, whatever that may be, as long as there's standard practice and people understand it going forward, that's fair ball.

The transparency is what Canadians want. How were some people processed while other people were put in a queue and never got processed at the end of the day? What was the process? Who was in charge? Where was the manipulation of “here are some people I know, call this person and get this done”? This is something that I think is on us to actually get to the bottom of at this committee. I don't know why we're avoiding it, because I get these questions all the time: What happened here? Can you please find out? You're on this committee now, Greg, so can you find out what happened with this?

I have hundreds of people that helped our troops still waiting to get in from Afghanistan. I get sent photos of those people who are no longer on the list of people coming into Canada, because I get sent photos of them at their funerals.

This is still a problem. We need to find a way through and make sure that, first, we bring as many people back here as possible and, second, we know what the process was and how we usurp that process. Let's get a clear understanding of it.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mr. McLean.

Mr. Maguire, do you still want to go ahead? The floor is yours.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I just want to say that my colleagues have mentioned all the things I was going to mention.

There is more here, but I just want to say that I really think it is time to support a motion like this to get Mr. Young before the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Ali.

Mr. Ali, go ahead, please.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to add my frustration today. We had those witnesses. They had taken the time out to come here and were responding to very important questions. As usual, our Conservative colleagues would love to filibuster and—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go back to the motion, quickly, please.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Yes, I am coming to it, sir. I am coming to the motion they just put forward.

During the witnesses' conversations, we were having that discussion and this motion was put forward, which was their time and they had to leave. In the past, we've had the defence minister, Harjt Sajjan, appear before the committee on this issue. The former minister of immigration Sean Fraser and Senator McPhedran have appeared before this committee on this issue.

We have had so many discussions on this issue, and here we go again. Our friend has brought forward that motion again on the same point that we have already had discussions on. I think it would be a waste of time. We have asked questions, had discussions on this issue and the same issue is being put forward. It would be a waste of the time of this committee. We can utilize our time on other studies.

Therefore, I would vote against this motion. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mr. Ali.

Mr. Redekopp is asking for the vote, but Mr. Chiang's name is on the list and then Mr. El-Khoury and Ms. Zahid.

If you don't agree with Mr. Redekopp's request for a vote, then you can take the time.

[Paul Chiang, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

You can call the vote.

[An hon. member]

Yes, that's fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Okay. I will ask the clerk to call the vote.

(Motion negatived: nays 5; yeas 4)

Earlier Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe made a request to go early—he was out of country in Japan—and I am sure that every member will accommodate that.

If I can give Ms. Kwan two seconds here, then we will adjourn the meeting.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Before we adjourn, I'd like to bring back my request for committee members to be able to submit questions to DND, especially as we were robbed of our time to ask questions in the second round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you. The motion is on the floor.

(Motion agreed to)

Thank you. The meeting is adjourned.