Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 7th, 2023

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

That's how we ended up with $500 hotel rooms.

Our leader, Pierre Poilievre, had called—I believe it was in February of this year—for a closure of Roxham Road. At that time, there were a lot of responses that it couldn't be done, that it was going to cause chaos, that we just couldn't do this. That was in the House of Commons. There were many comments back and forth from the Liberal government saying they couldn't do this.

In fact, that agreement was already signed and it was already put to bed that it was going to happen.

Can you comment on the chaos that did ensue at the border after Roxham Road was closed on March 25?

[Christiane Fox]

When the decision and the announcement were made and the agreement was concluded, we saw very quickly the numbers decrease.

I think on the day of the announcement, we still had about 200. The next day there were about 80, and the day after that there were about 25. I think the numbers of arrivals changed quite dramatically at the signing of the agreement.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

That was as predicted by the opposition, in Pierre Poilievre's response.

Was there additional chaos and all kinds of people crossing at various spots all across the country after that time?

[Christiane Fox]

No, there has been no increase in irregular arrivals. We're not necessarily seeing anything like the Emerson crossing in Manitoba. We're not seeing those numbers.

I think where we are seeing an increase now, rather than claims being made through Roxham Road and through irregular crossings, is at airports and at inland offices, so at IRCC offices across the country. That's where claims are being made versus being made irregularly.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

So the claim that there would be chaos at the borders hasn't proven to be true then.

[Christiane Fox]

I think what we're seeing is—

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Just a yes or no is fine.

[Christiane Fox]

It's a little bit hard to give a yes-or-no answer.

The border's very large so I think—

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Is there chaos at the border?

[Christiane Fox]

I would not say that today there is chaos at the border.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Fair enough.

There was another concern raised. We had the RCMP here. The commissioner of the RCMP was here and talked about having to deploy resources to Roxham Road that were essentially being diverted from other things they could be doing in Quebec.

On the 23rd, the RCMP tore down their headquarters at Lacolle and issued a statement saying their presence was no longer required.

Again, would that be viewed as a positive thing for RCMP enforcement in Quebec or a negative thing? How would you view that?

[Christiane Fox]

I think that would be best for the RCMP to answer. It's a policing question.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Is it fair to assume though that the RCMP could be doing other things now with the resources they have?

[Christiane Fox]

Again, I think it's up to the RCMP commissioner to speak about where his resources are being directed.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

You talked about 93,000 people being issued open work permits and you talked about methods to find jobs for those people.

Are there any metrics? Does the department have tracking metrics? Are we having success? Do we know what percentage of those people are finding jobs or being able to support themselves and move out of the hotel system that has been created?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

The time is up, so could we have a very brief answer, Deputy Minister?

[Christiane Fox]

I think what we're finding is that the ability to have an open work permit sooner in the process allows the asylum seeker to have a better opportunity earlier on to find employment.

We are trying to be creative. At one point, the Quebec government told us that they could not take in any more asylum seekers in hotels or in their spaces, so we worked very closely with Atlantic Canada. What we tried to do was identify the skills of asylum seekers who had arrived—in the context of Quebec—and then match them with potential employers in Atlantic Canada.

We had conversations with Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, and I think in that context we had some successes, in which people were meeting employers and people were actually conducting employment fairs for these individuals.

I think we can go back and look at the percentage. I think that right now it is difficult for people to find affordable housing and so we are seeing people stay—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Deputy Minister.

It's been seven minutes, so—

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Very briefly, she mentioned she could provide the statistics. Could we get the statistics?

[Christiane Fox]

Definitely.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

We'll go to Mr. El-Khoury and then Madame Kwan, both for up to six minutes.

Please, go ahead.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Deputy Minister.

Madam Fox, Canada is known as a very welcoming country and we are proud to welcome those people who are subjected to oppression in their countries, as asylum seekers, political refugees and all kinds.... It costs Canada a lot of money and we treat them nicely. I have some complaints and cases in my riding that I find difficult to explain. For example, we have cases like permanent residents who have spent a lot of time here working and contributing to our economy and for some reason like sickness or someone from their family having passed away, they have had to leave Canada and did not respect the time limit of six months by a couple of weeks or a couple of months, and have lost their permanent residency and had a removal order against them.

How can we logically justify to those people who are integrated in our workforce contributing to our economy...? As a matter of fact, they do jobs that Canada needs versus those seekers for whom we really don't know what kind of job they'll be able to do if they're accepted, and it costs us money. Logically speaking, can you justify that?

[Christiane Fox]

I think, if I understand your question correctly, you are talking about people who are permanent residents who leave for a certain amount of time and lose their permanent residency card. I think there is, as part of being a permanent resident in Canada, an obligation to fulfill a residency requirement in this country. If you don't meet those obligations, then there is a risk you would lose that permanent residency, and I think that's important because we want PRs to be here contributing to our economic well-being and our cultural well-being.

But I would say there is a recourse mechanism so that if someone wanted to either dispute the fact that they did not maintain residence or they have a good reason.... For instance, during COVID, there were decisions made where people had to go back to their home countries for a period of time and then because of border closures.... I think there are some flexibilities in the system and an opportunity for recourse if someone gets a decision that is maybe unfavourable to their PR.

But there is a requirement as a permanent resident in Canada to live in Canada for a particular amount of time to keep your status as a permanent resident.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

I could tell you, Deputy Minister, I have cases such as a woman who was delayed for three days—three days—because of difficulties with an airplane ticket, yet she received a removal order. That puzzled me.

I have another question. If an asylum seeker comes to Canada and from his arrival he proves that he has all of the qualifications as a professional or any skilled worker and he could take a job where Canada needed him to be, is it possible to speed up his path to permanent residency? Is there any special consideration for such cases?

[Christiane Fox]

I think what I would say is that it's possible to speed up a work permit to allow the individual, the asylum seeker, to work during their time in Canada, but I think we also have to respect that there is a process with the Immigration and Refugee Board where someone will claim asylum and the IRB will determine if they become a protected person in Canada. If they do become a protected person in Canada, then they would have a right to permanent residency, and eventually have the right to become a Canadian citizen.

My answer would absolutely be that we would want to fast-track someone who may be a doctor or in the context of some of our labour gaps, but I think it is important that we let the Immigration and Refugee Board make that final determination of whether or not someone's asylum claim is in fact warranted.