Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 7th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Give a brief answer, please.

[Daniel Anson]

The CBSA manages a variety of different threats that continue to evolve and shift based on global migration patterns. We always do our best to inform senior officials of intelligence or migration patterns as they evolve, based on countries of origin, which are usually due to geopolitical events out of our control.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mrs. Zahid for five minutes, please.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

My first question is for the IRCC officials. As we all know, the path of migration is not an easy one. It's long, difficult, dangerous and expensive.

Could you talk about what is actually driving these people to make the decision to undergo these journeys, and all the risks that are entailed in that process of migration?

[Scott Harris]

I think you're talking specifically about migration for protection purposes or humanitarian purposes, as opposed to people who may be moving—

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

The factors that are driving them to take all those journeys.

[Scott Harris]

As the minister mentioned, estimates from the UN are that there are about 110 million people in the world who are currently displaced or on the move as a result of changing circumstances.

The reasons for that would vary incredibly, from exposure to violent circumstances, wars or criminal elements in their country that threaten people's circumstances. Declining economic situations in various countries drive people into poverty and a lack of security. We are aware of increasing challenges in parts of the world that are becoming unlivable and driving people from where they have lived historically.

The variables are quite considerable that would lead to people who require protection.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Although Canada's aid and development programs all fall under another department and minister, would you be able to touch on how working to improve the conditions in people's home countries can lessen the demand for outward-bound migration and make sure they don't have to migrate?

[Scott Harris]

We work with our international partners and make investments in that international space to address country stability, and we work with the appropriate partners to help ensure that this occurs, as well as to promote human rights around the world. The individual measures would vary by region and by country.

As I mentioned earlier, the minister made an announcement of $75 million for this work to occur. In addition to that, our partners in Global Affairs Canada make numerous investments in international spheres to try to support countries in becoming more stable.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Given our geography, Canada hasn't had to deal with the same levels of migration as many countries in Europe, for example.

Are there any lessons we can take from the European experience of high levels of migration? Are there lessons we should adopt as we go through this process, or some examples we can avoid?

[Scott Harris]

We're robustly engaging with our counterparts, whether they are in Europe, the U.S., the U.K., Australia or New Zealand, to look at the different models that people have in place to address the flows of migrants around the world. We will continue to maintain an open dialogue to learn from one another.

Canada is often looked to as a leader in this space and people seek our advice, but we need to be open to considering the views of others.

Obviously, there are some measures we would not be interested in taking and that would not be consistent with our framework, but it's important for us to remain in dialogue with the global movement here.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Can you give some examples from any country you have been in touch with, some examples of what we should avoid or some examples from which we can take lessons and make our programs better?

[Scott Harris]

I'm reluctant to comment negatively on another country's measures given that their circumstances are different from our own, but I will say we are looking to our partners.

An interesting example of a place we're learning from is Mexico. As much as we're talking about the flows from Mexico to Canada, Mexico in the last number of years has grown to be one of the larger asylum-receiving countries in the world. They have numbers of asylum claimants that mirror Canada's. They have developed some interesting measures around economic mobility within the country to support people who are seeking asylum there so that they can find meaningful employment quickly.

Those kinds of measures we do pay attention to and we want to learn from.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you. I think my time is up.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much.

We will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for two and a half minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Since I have only two and a half minutes of speaking time, I'll ask each witness the same yes or no question, which they should be able to answer fairly easily.

In your respective organizations, are there any internal memos, notes or analyses stating that the Mexican cartels at the borders take advantage of the fact that Mexican nationals don't need a visa to enter Canada? The answer is simple. If it's no, it's no. If it's yes, it's yes.

[Daniel Anson]

I don't, unfortunately, have a yes-or-no answer. I would say, in terms of organized criminality exploiting visa-free travel, that is something that seldom surfaces in evidence related to prosecutions or in the line of investigations related to IRPA. I would say it is something that, in theory, we know exists. Visa-free travel is exploited in all circumstances, and there are always criminals and organized criminals and organized crime groups that are typically involved or associated with those types of illicit movements.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Burchill, have any internal notes informed you that the Mexican cartels are exploiting the loophole created by the lack of a visa requirement for Mexican nationals?

[C/Supt Richard Burchill]

Thank you for the question.

There was no internal information that would indicate that they were exploiting any situation in particular. I would echo the comments of my colleague from CBSA that organized crime—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I think we have an issue with interpretation. Is it okay now?

Go ahead, Mr. Burchill.

[C/Supt Richard Burchill]

I would just underline the fact that organized crime will find vulnerable folks and exploit them regardless of the circumstances around that.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

If we ask your organization for information, we won't find any notes, internal analyses or memos stating that Mexican cartels are taking advantage of the loophole created by the lack of a visa requirement for Mexican nationals. Is that right?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

The time is up, Associate Deputy Minister. Could you give us a brief answer, please?

[Scott Harris]

I'm not aware of anything specific on Mexican cartels, but we have, obviously, materials on organized crime and activities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much.

We will go to Ms. Kwan for two and a half minutes.

Go ahead, please.