Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 7th, 2024

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I appreciate that answer, because you're exactly correct to say it is very complex. There are a number of different factors that play into it. Simplistic conclusions are exactly that: just simplistic conclusions that may well be meaningless.

I'm trying to get at the truth, as opposed to disinformation. It could be very good and useful, as you gather this data, to also footnote the complexity of the issues and why there might be variances. We at this committee are trying—at least, I am trying—to get at the truth and to figure out what the best option is and what government needs to do to best support you in your efforts to address these issues—not just use sound bites and disinformation and think those somehow address the issues. That is a disservice both to you as people who serve our country, and to the public, who rely on elected officials to do a better job in getting at the issues at hand.

I really appreciate your answer. Thank you so much for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

You have 12 seconds left.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Is there anything else you might like to add or bring to our attention, in terms of where we should focus our minds?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you. The time is up.

Mr. Burchill, do you want to say something? No...? Okay. Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Kmiec.

Mr. Kmiec, go ahead for five minutes, please.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll go back to the “Canada to lift visa requirements for Mexico” press release of June 28, 2016. It's on the Prime Minister's website. It's still there. It says, “while preventing any increase in asylum claims or other irregular migration. Officials plan to meet regularly to promote these mutual interests.”

My question is for IRCC. The other two gentlemen can relax. I'll have questions for them in a moment.

The minister was incapable of answering a question about what programs, public policies or internal departmental things were going on to try to keep the numbers down. It's a 2,000% increase.

What are the programs? What was done in 2016 when the visa requirement was lifted? The minister couldn't answer.

[Scott Harris]

Thank you for the question.

For a number of years now, we have had high-level dialogue occurring between the two countries. That specifically speaks to both the number and the trends we are seeing in this space in terms of asylum claims, human trafficking and others. It's to look at measures that can be taken. Some of those measures have included having discussions about strengthening awareness of rights and looking at educational campaigns. There are a number of things in the law enforcement space that I wouldn't want to publicly disclose, obviously, because it might eliminate the tools available to people.

That said, you've pointed out that the number of asylum claims has continued to increase, and we're seized with that. We're continuing that dialogue. I can tell you that, as recently as two weeks ago, I met with officials in Mexico City to discuss this.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Okay. You're saying “high-level dialogue”. You've met with your Mexican counterparts.

[Scott Harris]

I have, as recently as two weeks ago.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Okay.

How often would you say that senior officials at IRCC are meeting with the Mexican government?

[Scott Harris]

The meetings vary over time in terms of frequency. More recently, we've been meeting frequently. My follow-up meeting in January was preceded by one in December. In addition, we obviously don't always meet in person. We have virtual contacts with governments on a number of levels.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Is it fair to say that you're the lead on the file, then?

[Scott Harris]

We have a number of people working on the lead. We have an idea. We've recently gone through reorganization at IRCC, and we created an ADM of migration integrity. Aiesha Zafar's role is to augment and elevate our ability to deal with integrity issues in the broader system, not just on this issue.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Is that ADM, then, the person who is the lead on whether or not to reimpose the visa requirement on Mexican nationals?

[Scott Harris]

I would say that it's a shared lead within the department. Obviously, we have policy considerations as well as integrity issues. She is currently leading the discussions.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Could I ask you whether you're getting pressure from the Mexican government not to reimpose the visa?

[Scott Harris]

I would say we've maintained a good dialogue with Mexican officials. We rely on them for a number of our programs.

They have obviously expressed concerns—if that's your question—about modifying the current structure around travel between our two countries. We are very reliant on mutual travel between the two countries, and that has been flagged.

That said, we raised our integrity concerns, and we will continue to do so.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

By the minister's own accounting of the numbers.... I only have the numbers going up to September. None of the rest of them are posted on the IRB's website. By his own account, 70% were refused after they made their asylum claim. They were rejected by the tribunal.

Are you tracking these people? What is happening with them?

I'm going to the CBSA in a moment to ask for the tracking.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

We'll hear from the associate deputy minister, and then I'll go to the director general.

[Scott Harris]

That is the right order of things. I would say to go to the CBSA next.

As you know, once a claim is not approved, it moves into the removal process, and that triggers CBSA processes to start the process for removals.

[Daniel Anson]

That effectively answers it. Once the IRB process is done and any potential appeals have been exhausted, it is placed into the CBSA's hands for enforcement and, potentially, a removal order for the individual.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

How many are in that queue who are Mexican nationals or have Mexican national documents?

[Daniel Anson]

I apologize, Mr. Chair. I don't have the statistics on the number of Mexican nationals on the removal order list.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Could you provide them to the committee?

[Daniel Anson]

Yes.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I'd like to ask a final question, sir.

When did the CBSA realize there was a huge problem with the number of asylum claimants from a specific country—Mexico—making claims and being rejected? When was it flagged up to the DM level or the ministerial level?