Evidence of meeting #93 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was students.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

February 28th, 2024 / 5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

I call this meeting to order.

We are meeting in public.

Welcome to meeting number 93 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

Today, for a briefing on recent changes to international student policy and plans for future measures, we have with us the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, the Honourable Marc Miller, along with the officials.

First I would love to welcome, on behalf of the committee members, Dr. Harpreet S. Kochhar, who is the deputy minister. He's not new to the department. He was the ADM in the department. He moved to other departments and he's come back.

Dr. Kochhar, welcome.

We also have Ms. May with us. She is no stranger to the committee. Welcome to the committee as well.

We also have Aiesha Zafar, who is joining us virtually. Ms. Zafar, welcome to the committee.

We have two honourable members joining us. I would love to acknowledge that they are here with us.

Mike Morrice is here. Welcome to the committee.

Also with us, we have Luc Berthold. Welcome to the meeting.

With this, we will go directly to the minister. You have five minutes for your opening statement. Please go ahead.

5:10 p.m.

Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs Québec

Liberal

Marc Miller LiberalMinister of Immigration

Thank you, Chair.

I want to take my turn to welcome the team, particularly Dr. Harpreet Kochhar, who is the new deputy minister for this department. It is his first time in committee with me.

I want to begin by acknowledging our presence on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

I’m glad to be back at this committee, twice this month, to discuss reforms to the international student program, as well as international student fraud and an update on the task force. Several of you have already asked questions about those issues.

In recent years, we have seen dramatic increases in the number of international students who are arriving and hopefully studying in Canada.

Some institutions have significantly increased the number of international students they receive to boost revenues without providing students with the resources and support they need.

This has rendered international students vulnerable to exploitation and abuse. We must have safeguards in place to protect newcomers while maintaining system integrity. That’s why we’ve introduced reforms to the program to improve system integrity, support international students in Canada and better protect them from exploitation.

As of December 2023, we've established a mandatory letter of acceptance verification system for all post-secondary institutions to help protect students and institutions from fraud. We've also launched a task force to identify genuine international students who are victims of schemes around fraudulent letters of admissions, which we have seen as well.

In January, we increased the financial requirements for international students to $20,635. This measure will ensure that students are financially prepared for life in Canada and consequently less vulnerable to exploitation and abuse.

While this was a necessary step to ensure international students can support themselves, we understand that increasing the financial requirements may have a disproportionate effect on students from low-income and francophone countries. We’re working on two pilot projects to mitigate that impact.

Additionally, international students at private institutions that have curriculum licensing arrangements with public institutions will no longer be eligible for a work permit upon graduation. Public-private partnerships are notorious for lacking oversight, and as such do not provide the quality of academic experience that Canada is and should be renowned for.

Not only do many of these institutions fail international students, they also jeopardize the reputation of Canada and its designated learning institutions as global leaders in education.

These measures will safeguard international students, bolster program integrity and maintain Canada’s competitive edge in recruiting top talent.

International students make large financial and personal investments to come to Canada—their families do as well—and many intend to stay here as permanent residents on a path to citizenship. That is not always guaranteed, nor is it the point of the program.

This is the crux of the program; we want and need these students to stay in Canada and fill our labour gaps. However, unbridled growth has led to unprecedented numbers of international students in Canada. This jeopardizes the pathway to citizenship they expect.

That’s why, in addition to these reforms, we’ve introduced a two-year cap on new study permits. Provinces and territories remain responsible for post-secondary education. They allocate and will allocate cap spaces to their designated learning institutions, which they can and should regulate.

Students here for graduate degrees and PhDs, as well as primary and secondary students, are exempt from these measures.

To keep the intent of these reforms beyond the cap, we’re developing a recognized institutions framework, which we worked on with partners for a long time, thanks to the initiative of my predecessor, Sean Fraser, and which we’ll adopt in the coming months.

Many institutions have not only promoted unsustainable growth but also have accepted students without the ability to provide proper supports, including housing, along with, at times, unethical recruiting practices. By penalizing the bad actors and rewarding the good ones, this framework will and should enable a smooth transition towards the abandonment of the cap if we choose to do so.

The cap and other reforms I’ve mentioned today are not an end in themselves for international students; on the contrary, they'll help to maintain pathways to permanent residency and citizenship if they're available, attract and retain top talent, and ensure that students who settle in Canada have access to essential resources and supports.

I should note that the international students are not responsible for the challenges communities currently face in housing, health care and other services. These are vital services that all Canadians must be able to access, including the students that we welcome.

As we welcome bright students from around the world, we’re responsible to ensure they’re prepared to navigate life and thrive here, with support along the way.

Thank you, Chair.

I will now take your questions.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Thank you, Minister.

Honourable members, you've been very kind to me in previous times in the committee meeting when we are having a discussion with the minister. I will make sure that I respect your time. If the minister has to respond to your question, I don't want crosstalk so that the interpreters can do their job effectively and comfortably. Raise your hand, and I will make sure that your time is respected that way.

With that, we will start with Mr. Kmiec for six minutes. Please go ahead.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Thank you, Chair.

Minister, in your comments, you outlined what the government has done quite late in the game now to try to resolve the problems created by a Liberal government after eight years. I want to ask you specifically, on international students, now that there's a cap of 35% that you've placed on that—a reduction—does the department know how many international students today are homeless?

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Miller Liberal Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

First, just to qualify your comment, MP Kmiec, this is a program that has been supported by many governments, including Conservative governments. The Harper government doubled the program. It's one that has, yes, gotten out of control.

We don't track the homelessness rates of students—

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

I'll take it that you don't know how many—

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Miller Liberal Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

I—

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

—are homeless right now. You don't know that, although there have been stories all over the country of international students who are sleeping in their cars on campus.

In fact, the Nova Scotia Community College CEO said in the pre-budget meetings in the fall that he had students calling every single day asking whether they could sleep in their cars on campus while attending their post-secondary institution. It's on the record there.

You have tent cities. You have people basically saying that they have nowhere else to live or you have 25 people living in a home, all while the department kept issuing international study permits to these students. They promised them one thing and they had a different experience in Canada. Why did you allow that to keep happening over the fall?

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Miller Liberal Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

You know very well, MP Kmiec, that education is in the jurisdiction of the provinces. Provinces regulate designated learning institutions. The only entity in this chain not making any money off it is the federal government. The provincial governments get their cut. The institutions get their cut.

We trusted provinces. We trusted designated learning institutions and, on seeing that this was getting out of control, we acted, and I think that's a very important thing to remember.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Minister, are you saying you would have cared more if you were making money on it also?

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Miller Liberal Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

That isn't the answer. My point is that when you talk about responsibility, the responsibility is shared by jurisdictions, and it is very simplistic to suggest that the federal government can simply turn on and off a tap and individually regulate institutions. Your own Conservative government would be the first to complain about that.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

You did not include work hour limits in the announcement. You said that those announcements were going to be made in the future. Now you've said in your opening statement that international students are not to blame for the housing crisis in Canada. That's probably the only part of your statement I agree with, that small sliver of a few words.

There is media reporting that the government was actually warned. IRCC officials warned the immigration department that there would be an impact on housing if the international student program was not changed. That was two years ago, to your predecessor. I have the article right here, and this gentleman is still moonlighting as a senior immigration minister all across the country. He was warned two years ago that if changes to the international student program were not made, it would lead to increased housing pressure.

Have you seen those briefing notes and memos that The Canadian Press is reporting on?

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Honourable Minister, go ahead.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Miller Liberal Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

As a clarification, am I to understand that you didn't agree with anything in the opening statement about what is happening in Canada? You can't be oblivious to.... These are—

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Are you going to answer my question?

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Miller Liberal Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

I am just talking to you about—

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

Did you see the memo, Minister?

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Miller Liberal Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

I have seen memo upon memo about international students, and under my authority, I have acted. That is what I plan to do and plan to continue.

It is clear that we have issues in and around affordability and the cost of shelter, and there is the impact of volume generated by some concentrations of students in some areas. However, my announcement, to be clear, was not one to deal with affordability; it was one to restore integrity in the system—

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Honourable member, I'll—

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

In the memo being quoted here by The Canadian Press, it says, “Waiving the cap [would] help alleviate labour shortages, a memorandum for the minister conceded, but it could also have other unintended consequences.”

Then it continues and talks about other issues that would arise. The memo said it could, “give rise to further program integrity concerns with the international student program”.

Minister, will you commit today to instruct your deputy minister to release all the memos, the briefing notes and the internal documents being referred to in The Canadian Press article that appeared on the CBC, no less, on February 13, 2024? The headline reads, “Minister was warned about possible negative impacts of lifting international student work limit”.

Will you release them to this committee?

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Miller Liberal Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

What I can say about this process and about the process of decision-making is that ministers are often briefed on a number of risks—the pros, the cons, everything in between—and we take a decision in light of that. I believe that the decision of my predecessor was the right one in the context.

Then we have another decision that we must take in reducing those hours in the coming—

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Tom Kmiec Conservative Calgary Shepard, AB

What are you hiding, Minister? I am asking you to just release the memo. Are you going to release the memo and the documents to this committee—

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Miller Liberal Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

I am not going to undertake, at this time, to release that information—

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Honourable member, I will make sure that you get your time. Let the minister respond, and I'll come directly to you.

Minister, go ahead, please.

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Marc Miller Liberal Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC

I am not going to undertake at this time to release those memos.