Evidence of meeting #27 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gallivan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
In practical terms, on a high level from your audit, do you think the Liberal government is addressing only the symptoms of this immigration crisis, or are they addressing some of the causes as well?
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
The international student program was one of the programs meant to help contribute to lowering the immigration level. There was a goal set to reduce the number of temporary residents. Reducing the number of international study permits was a key contributor to getting there. The goal was achieved, but that decline was much sharper than expected.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
Do you think the goal of restoring the integrity of the immigration system was achieved?
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
Again, I can't speak to the whole immigration system.
Auditor General of Canada, Office of the Auditor General
We focused on the international student programs.
They added some measures to improve the integrity—verifying that the letters of acceptance from the universities were authentic. We cited many instances where they had information and did not act on these integrity concerns. That's why we provided recommendations to improve the integrity process. The reforms were meant to reduce the numbers but also to improve integrity, and there's work left to be done on the latter.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
My next set of questions are for the officials of the IRCC.
How long does an investigation into an international student fraud case take, on average?
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
It would vary. In some cases, it could be seconds, because we confirm that the person has status. In other cases, it could be quite extensive. The facts would vary. It would be a range.
I'll go back to the 153,000 cases. In a few months, we've been able to say that 78% of these people have a normalized status in the country. Some of them are quite quick. Others can be quite slow.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
For the other 22%, how long would that be on average, roughly speaking? Is it years, months or longer?
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
This year, our commitment is to put them into better buckets. Out of the 33,000 or so who are left, some will have left the country. For others, once we begin the research, we might find answers. The commitment would be, for this calendar year, to at least know that we're down to a smaller number who require more aggressive treatment. Those cases can be quite long.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
When an international student permit has expired and an individual decides to overstay their visa, how long would it take for your department to figure that out?
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I can't answer in terms of how long it would take the department.
Going back to earlier testimony, our game plan going forward is to talk to people before the expiry, because they should have purchased tickets and made plans to leave the country before they fall out of status. They would therefore be renewing as a student, transferring to a different status or purchasing a plane ticket. Our plan, then, is to talk to them before that day arrives.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
Okay. Once that process plays out and individuals continue to overstay their visas, how long will it take before they're ordered deported if the individuals have exhausted all of their appeals process?
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Some people do have appeal rights throughout the whole continuum, but in the case of somebody with an expired visa, our intention is to act immediately to contact people before that expiration date, and then once—
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
You don't know how long it will take on average, then. Okay—
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
We have not yet implemented the program, so it would be difficult for me to talk about a sweet spot in terms of referral to CBSA or not.
Conservative
Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON
My last question is for the CBSA officials here.
Once someone has been ordered deported and referred to the CBSA but still refuses to leave voluntarily, how long will it take for your department, on average, to remove this individual?
President, Canada Border Services Agency
I'm going to say the same thing. It depends. We will call them in for an interview, and then we will talk about their circumstances and we will work with them to leave the country—
Conservative
President, Canada Border Services Agency
There's no average. There are people who leave immediately. There are people who—
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Thank you, Mr. Ho.
Thank you, Ms. O'Gorman.
That is time.
Please remember not to speak over each other, as it is hard for our interpreters.
Next, we have five minutes for Mr. Zuberi.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for being here.
I want to continue with the IRCC representatives. I've gone through the Auditor General's report, and I know that you have a diversification strategy for international students, which has been showing some progress in the last years.
When you see the tables relating to 2023, 2024 and 2025, there is progress being made, but in our offices and constituencies, we still hear regularly about student wait times being uneven, with uneven wait times for the evaluation of student visas. There are still some comparatives being made by people originating from different countries that there doesn't seem to be an even-handed approach.
Are you seized by this question, number one, about wait times, and number two, about making sure there is an even-handed approach when it comes to people from different countries with respect to student admissions and visas within Canada?
Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
I'll first start by quickly going back to the exchange we just had to remind the committee that the OAG report was delivered in March. That was the previous month.
We have preliminary plans. We've started to take action, but if I don't have a full and complete answer in terms of how long it takes to do something, it's because I'm acting on a report that we received last month. I hope to do better next time. I sense the frustration, but this is a report that landed weeks ago, and we're in the early phases of implementing an action plan.
In terms of wait times, back to that concept of control, the OAG audited management controls. Did management have the information it needed to make decisions? Did it have the right procedures, practices and IT systems in place? I do believe that DPM, an iterative IT system that we're building, will give us better information both to act more quickly on legitimate claims and then to flag aside the claims that aren't legitimate. Imagine machine learning that's scanning the integrity of documents. We'll learn what a diploma from a certain university is supposed to look like, and we'll be able to detect if it's been doctored.
I do think that some of the investments we continue to make in IT and this idea of control lets us pass the legitimate students through more quickly, which we need to do, and at the same time flag those who deserve greater scrutiny.
Liberal
Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
When you see unevenness between neighbouring countries, let's say, with respect to wait times—gross differences—do you take note of that and do you start putting in resources to make sure those differences don't exist?