Evidence of meeting #28 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was immigrants.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
I'm not pointing fingers. It's just that we're doing a study, and we're trying to get some facts. That's why these questions are coming.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Please, it's not intended to have any purpose other than that.
Have you noticed a dramatic increase in the number of asylum claimants seeking your services?
Founding Director, Matthew House, Toronto
No, I wouldn't say there's a dramatic increase.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Since the government announced that it has allegedly stopped housing asylum claimants in hotels, have you noticed or heard of an uptick in asylum claimants coming to homeless shelters?
Founding Director, Matthew House, Toronto
I haven't heard of a significant number, no.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you.
You mentioned the IHAP program. Recently we heard testimony at this committee about the government investing in municipalities by giving them money to purchase, for example, hotels to house asylum claimants and refugees.
Are you aware of those?
Conservative
Founding Director, Matthew House, Toronto
I don't know if they've purchased buildings; maybe they have in some cases. I believe there is one in Peel, just outside of Toronto.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
There's one in Ottawa, the nation's capital, very close to where we're sitting right now. There was some $40 million in investment given to the city to purchase...to house people, among other things.
Founding Director, Matthew House, Toronto
I don't know if that actually took place. I think that was proposed.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
No, it did. There was testimony by the department itself, Ms. Woolger. They told us they actually did that, so it did happen.
Founding Director, Matthew House, Toronto
Okay. I'm sorry. I wasn't aware.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
If they aren't in hotels and aren't in homeless shelters, it's your testimony that they are...where?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Thank you, Mr. Menegakis. That is the time. You'll have to get a response in the next round.
Next we have six minutes for Mr. Fragiskatos.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London Centre, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for being here today.
Professor Fang, let me begin with you. It's a very general question, but I think it's fundamental to the discussion and to this study. It's about the place of labour shortages and about the immigration system offering a potential answer to shortages that exist. I say “potential answer” because I don't think it is “the” answer; it's one of many.
What is your view, sir? You've offered some recommendations, but I want to have you share your general view on how we can address labour shortages through the immigration system.
Full Professor, Stephen Jarislowsky Chair in Economic and Cultural Transformation, As an Individual
That's a very good question.
I'm trained as an economist. We believe in evidence-based practice and policy-making.
We did a national—and also an Atlantic Canada—survey of employers about labour skills shortages.
We reported during COVID times, for example, that 40% of the employers had hiring difficulties. The labour market has eased a little in recent years, but 30% of employers still reported this, especially SMEs—small and medium-sized employers. It was also reported that 80% to 90% of them are willing to hire immigrants and international students to fill labour skills shortages. That's pretty clear. The causal linkage is there. We also know there's been a skills mismatch, which is unfortunate.
At the high end—the highly skilled and the skilled trades—we couldn't find enough Canadian-born workers to fill these positions. Also, in the low-wage occupations—fishery, agricultural and all of those things—we don't have enough local workers willing to take those jobs. There's a pretty clear dichotomy in which immigrants and temporary foreign international students can fill a gap.
This is what we have studied, both during the COVID times of 2020 to 2022 and more recently. We just completed a national survey this year, and it is not as high. It was 40%, and now it's 30% that report hiring and labour skills shortages. The employer hiring attitude still remains very positive, at about 70% to 80%.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London Centre, ON
You teach at Memorial University, I believe. Is that correct?
Full Professor, Stephen Jarislowsky Chair in Economic and Cultural Transformation, As an Individual
Yes.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London Centre, ON
You're very familiar, obviously, with the fish-processing sector in Atlantic Canada writ large. It's fundamental to the economy. That point is obvious.
What might be less obvious to the rest of the country is that shortages exist in the sector, as my colleagues from Atlantic Canada frequently remind me. There is no challenge with demand. The demand is quite plentiful, whether from the domestic market or for markets overseas, but they can't find workers.
Where do we source the workers? You talked about the temporary foreign worker program. Is this a potential answer to fill some of those gaps?
Full Professor, Stephen Jarislowsky Chair in Economic and Cultural Transformation, As an Individual
We did interviews with both employers and newcomers across the provinces in Atlantic Canada. The simple fact of the matter is that without temporary foreign workers, those fish plants won't survive. They can't find enough locally.
I ask my students all the time, and nobody in my class would be willing to do a job in the fishery industry, even with many of them coming from fishing companies, villages and so on.
There's no other way around it. In these specific sectors—we're talking about fishery, agriculture, construction and health care—immigration certainly plays a key role. I wouldn't say it's the only solution, but it has a key role in solving labour skills shortages in those sectors.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London Centre, ON
Thank you, Professor.
Welcome, Ms. Biron.
I actually have the same questions for you. Specifically, I would like to know your opinion on the issues regarding temporary foreign workers.
Director, Industrial Development and Talent Strategy, Drummond économique
Economic immigration in our region has made a real difference to businesses. It's important.
Our region is heavily involved in manufacturing. If we want our businesses to become competitive, we need to fill trade positions. The school system isn't enough to meet these needs. Some trades and businesses are moving towards automation. However, electrical mechanics are needed to operate the robots and machines, for example. The pool isn't large enough.
What do we do? Where do we get these people? The solution has largely been economic immigration and the temporary foreign worker program.