Evidence of meeting #34 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was services.
A video is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Okay.
Ms. Clark‑Kazak, during my visits, I see that services are sometimes lacking, and there is also a perception. Don't you think that a fair distribution would ensure better integration and greater acceptance?
Conservative
Prof. Christina Clark-Kazak
Yes, if there are services in place. We also need lawyers in the provinces, such as New Brunswick, where there are fewer—
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Michelle Rempel
Thank you.
We are now proceeding to our second round of questions for five minutes, and we'll start with Mr. Menegakis.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing before us.
Ms. Brennan, I'd like to start with you. You spoke of the national coordination strategy and potentially a national body with dedicated funding. Is this just an idea you have, or are you aware of more serious discussions taking place to implement this?
Executive Director, Matthew House Ottawa
I think there's a lot of interest in the NGO community to see something like this stood up. As I said, the sector is already doing this work. We exist in almost every province across Canada that is providing reception housing, but what we lack is that coordination infrastructure. I think it's becoming a pretty serious conversation among the NGO partners as to how we could do this in the absence of this type of model existing right now.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
That's something. Are you aware of any discussions that have taken place with the federal government, with you or others, about this?
Executive Director, Matthew House Ottawa
No. When I worked for the Province of Nova Scotia, we had the FPT asylum working group, whose goal was to come up with some recommendations for a national model. That working group was dissolved, because there was political interference.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Mr. Donauer, I'd like to go over to you, sir. You mentioned some of the hardships that the municipality has had in dealing with a big number of perhaps immigrants or asylum claimants in the municipality. Would you agree that a large swell of immigrants or asylum seekers or refugees into Saskatoon would create a problem for the municipality? Do you think that would create a need to raise taxes in the municipality?
City Councillor, City of Saskatoon, As an Individual
Yes and yes.
As I said, in lots of our systems right now, including housing, health and social welfare, some of those asylum seekers, I agree, may not access them, or they may. They're at max capacity now, and we're having difficulties caring for the people who exist now. That is absolutely having an impact on our taxes in Saskatoon, and a large influx of people utilizing those services, or needing that, would absolutely impact the city disproportionately.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Would you agree that, at a minimum, a contributing factor to municipal budgets being constrained across the country is the high number of immigrants that the Liberal government has let in over the last 10 years?
City Councillor, City of Saskatoon, As an Individual
Our problem isn't just immigrants as a whole. Our problem is a cross-section of people.
The question originally was this: What would happen if a large influx of asylum seekers was brought to the city of Saskatoon? Yes, that would create a problem for us, for sure. It would exacerbate the problems that we're dealing with right now.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Has your municipality...or are you aware of any other municipalities that have had to raise property taxes to raise funds to provide supportive services for asylum claimants?
City Councillor, City of Saskatoon, As an Individual
Well, I can't draw a straight line for asylum.... We wouldn't have a line in our budget for that. However, certainly we're having to delve into.... I'm speaking to the other speakers' comments. Everybody disputes whose responsibility these things are. A lot of the time, we're the bottom of the barrel, though, so the responsibility falls to us to care for the people who are in our community.
If the federal and provincial governments aren't there providing that care, it does fall to the city. That would be one of the factors, yes, sir.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Have you had to repurpose municipal shelters into long-term transitional housing so that you can house asylum seekers?
City Councillor, City of Saskatoon, As an Individual
It's not specifically to house asylum seekers, as far as I'm aware. It's been to house those who are in need, yes, sir.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Has your municipality, Saskatoon, effectively been forced somewhat to choose between serving the local chronically homeless population in your municipality and meeting Canada's international humanitarian obligations?
City Councillor, City of Saskatoon, As an Individual
I would say that we're doing it all together. We're probably not doing any of it overly well, at the end of the day, as far as what's left on our streets.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Would you agree that it is irresponsible to have bogus asylum claimants taking up municipal funds when there are homeless people on our streets?
City Councillor, City of Saskatoon, As an Individual
Well, if you're referring to false claimants—you referred to bogus claimants—then that would be troublesome. My preference, as I indicated, would be to deal with these claims. If they're not found to be genuine refugees, then remove them so that they're not competing with the need for our services.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
That would be in line with what the Parliamentary Budget Officer found this week: 74,000 failed asylum claimants getting full luxury health benefits across the country, benefits that Canadians don't get.
My last question for you is on how the federal government says it stopped supplying hotel rooms for asylum claimants. When we ask where people went, it has no answer for that.
Do you have any idea where they may be going?
City Councillor, City of Saskatoon, As an Individual
I would anticipate that if people can't get a hotel in Saskatoon, they're on the street or on somebody's couch.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Michelle Rempel
Thank you.
We now have Mr. Fragiskatos for five minutes.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London Centre, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses.
Ms. Brennan, I'll begin with you.
Matthew House does very important work. I've been there in the past. Thank you to you and your colleagues, first of all, for carrying out that very important service for this community where we are.
If I understood you correctly in your testimony, you said that it's not a capacity problem that we have but a coordination problem. Is that right? Okay.
One impression that the committee could be left with is that we have a coordination issue, and I want you to clarify this. Both you and Professor Clark-Kazak made the point that NGOs have traditionally played a very important response in terms of integrating those who are seeking asylum. One impression that the committee could be left with is that your recommendation is that we basically ensure or recommend to the government that massive amounts of funding go to NGOs to continue to carry out this work—funding that's over and above what's been provided in the past.
Is that your argument, in essence?
Executive Director, Matthew House Ottawa
No, I don't think so.
I think there has been significant investment in providing emergency accommodation for asylum seekers across the country over the last several years. I don't think that's always been done effectively or efficiently. Providing temporary housing is going to cost money. It could cost less money if we work with the existing partners that are executing, relatively cost-effectively, the same models they always have.
I think the investment needs to continue, but I don't think hotels are the answer. We're operating at $37 per day. There was a time when massive blocks of hotel rooms were rented out at, essentially, regular market costs. You're looking at $200 or $300 per night per room. The cost comparison is astronomical.
I'm not saying that we should completely remove resourcing from these communities that need it and from the non-profits and the municipalities that are providing the service, but I think we should get really smart about how we're going to spend our public dollars.