Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 27th, 2026

[Prof. Christina Clark-Kazak]

I think it is important to acknowledge that Canada is well regarded in the world. People actually come here to study the Immigration and Refugee Board. We have a rules-based system. We give people an opportunity, and we hear their case. Where the capacity is lagging is that we don't have enough decision-makers to process these claims quickly, and then we get a backlog. When people are in limbo, they don't have the possibility of regularizing their status.

I would also say that people have the right to work, which is not the case in many other contexts, including in the U.K., where asylum seekers don't have the right to work, and that puts a huge pressure on the public purse. The fact that asylum seekers can work.... Some of them are skilled labour, if I could just correct that point, because people are fleeing to Canada not because of poverty. They're fleeing because of political persecution. I work with colleagues at the University of Ottawa who are displaced scholars, who are researchers like me, who happened to come here and make an asylum claim.

[Wade Chang, Liberal, Burnaby Central, BC]

Some people have described our asylum system as being in chaos. From your research and experience, is it more accurate to describe the issue as one of capacity pressure that requires better coordination and long-term planning?

[Prof. Christina Clark-Kazak]

I work in a public policy school. I think the fundamental issue with an asylum system is the unpredictability of it, because it's about global events. We can't actually predict how many people are coming, unlike refugee resettlement, where we have numbers and we know how many people are coming.

I think the policy challenge is the unpredictability and making sure that there are services available for people without knowing how many people are actually going to end up coming, because it's a right. It's a right to claim asylum. We can't just turn people away. When they come here, we need to have a system for assessing those claims.

[Wade Chang, Liberal, Burnaby Central, BC]

Thank you so much. I will now turn to Ms. Brennan.

Ms. Brennan, through your work at Matthew House, what contributions have you seen refugees and asylum seekers make to Canada once they are given the opportunity to settle successfully?

[Kailee Brennan]

I could tell you 100,000 stories of success that come out of Matthew House.

Last year we did a survey of our past residents, and 100 respondents replied. Of those respondents, 94% never returned to a homeless shelter after leaving Matthew House. We had 89% who were employed full-time or part-time. We feel very confident about the contributions that former clients of these models are making in our communities.

[Wade Chang, Liberal, Burnaby Central, BC]

From your organization's experience, what federal policies or operational practices are most important for helping refugees settle quickly and successfully into Canadian society?

[Kailee Brennan]

It's a good question. I agree with what everybody has said. Having a system that is organized, fast and predictable is one of the number one ways to get people to stabilize quickly. I think housing goes right alongside that.

Again, we're very transitional housing. We only house people for about 90 days, but folks are most often able to land on their feet after that point. They move out together. They've met folks in the reception home who are in a similar situation to them, and they're able to share accommodations.

I think it's keeping the asylum system as efficient as we can and then ensuring that there are wraparound supports that go alongside that.

[Wade Chang, Liberal, Burnaby Central, BC]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Michelle Rempel]

Now we have six minutes for Mr. Deschênes.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good morning, everyone. I thank the witnesses for being here.

Mr. Donauer, as a city councillor in Saskatoon, what problem do you see with the proposal that each province in Canada accept a number of asylum seekers proportional to its population?

[Randy Donauer]

Thank you for the question.

I think a lot of effort is being put into what could be considered a lot of good work. My first question would be, is this the work that should be done? We can do something—

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Mr. Donauer, my question is very specific: Do you see a problem with the idea that each province should accept a number of asylum seekers proportional to its demographic weight within the Canadian federation?

[Randy Donauer]

Yes, I think it's a more complex issue than that.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Do you see a problem with this principle? In what way is this principle problematic?

Don't you think this is just a matter of fair distribution? Isn't it just a matter of fairness?

[Randy Donauer]

I think it's more complex than that. I think you need to consider other factors.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

I'm having trouble understanding you.

The proposal states that within Canada, each province would accept a number of asylum seekers proportional to its population. You mentioned homelessness and the housing crisis plaguing Saskatoon. You should know that these issues are also rampant in Montreal, so I don't understand your argument against equitable distribution. Aside from saying that it's more complex than that, what is your argument against an equitable distribution of asylum seekers across the country?

[Randy Donauer]

Is there a question?

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Yes. The question is: What is your argument against a fair distribution of asylum seekers across the country?

[Randy Donauer]

Thank you. That's where I was going to begin.

I think the consideration needs to be that there's a lot more complexity to the issue than just picking numbers and putting them across the map of Canada. Different funding levels go to different provinces and different cities. I think larger cities have a better ability to adapt to these sorts of large influxes than smaller ones.

I also think you need to look at what I spoke to today, which was the immediate ability for a municipality to accept numbers of these based on what they're going through. In another season, this might not be an issue in Saskatoon, but in this season, it is.

We could do a lot of good work here. I just question whether this is the work we should do, or if we should actually fix the problem. We can spend years and millions of dollars throwing money at how to accommodate people who are here for years waiting for a decision. Why don't we just not leave them here for years awaiting a decision? Take all those resources and actually fix the problem, rather than finding ways to accommodate this problem and move it around.

Your demographic...and wanting to spread it around is absolutely a factor that needs to be considered, sir. I just don't think it's the only factor.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Ms. Clark‑Kazak, you mentioned the need for coordination to ensure successful integration if asylum seekers were distributed equitably. Currently, do you believe there is coordination between the Government of Canada, the province of Ontario and the province of Quebec regarding asylum seekers?

[Prof. Christina Clark-Kazak]

I think there is coordination, but it is imperfect. We do have the foundations for coordination, given that we have experience in Ontario and Quebec. I think there is less coordination with the other provinces because we have less experience in these cases.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

You also said that the consent of the other provinces would be required, because it is necessary for the system to function. We see that other places, particularly in Europe, have been able to move toward an agreement to find a way to ensure equitable distribution.

Furthermore, when we listen to the testimony from the Saskatoon City Council, we see that there is resistance. In fact, this is somewhat similar to what has happened in recent years. How do you explain this resistance?

[Prof. Christina Clark-Kazak]

I think there is resistance because everyone thinks it's the federal government's responsibility. In fact, social services and education fall under the provincial government's jurisdiction. As for housing, that falls under municipal authority. That's where the problem lies. Everyone thinks it's someone else's responsibility, and there's a lack of coordination between these different levels of government. Other places, as you say, for example in England and the United Kingdom, have been able to negotiate because there's more coordination. There is less independent authority like that of our provinces.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

One of our concerns is ensuring that we properly integrate asylum seekers. In Quebec, when I visit services—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Michelle Rempel]

You have 10 seconds for a brief response.